D&D 5E TftYP - Against the Giants

[pukunui]

Has anyone else noticed that WotC was a little too faithful in their Against the Giants conversion, at least in terms of the size of the various giant lairs? Given how much bigger giants are in 5e, they're going to have trouble squeezing through all those 10-foot wide corridors and 7-foot wide doors. Some of them might also end up scraping their heads on the ceilings.

When I get around to running it, I'm thinking I might just have to add 5 feet to all the ceiling heights and increase the scale of the maps to one square = 15 feet.

Anyone got any better ideas?





Thanks to [MENTION=40592]hastur_nz[/MENTION] for bring this to my attention.

 

[Luz]

Has anyone else noticed that WotC was a little too faithful in their Against the Giants conversion, at least in terms of the size of the various giant lairs? Given how much bigger giants are in 5e, they're going to have trouble squeezing through all those 10-foot wide corridors and 7-foot wide doors. Some of them might also end up scraping their heads on the ceilings.

When I get around to running it, I'm thinking I might just have to add 5 feet to all the ceiling heights and increase the scale of the maps to one square = 15 feet.

Anyone got any better ideas?





Thanks to [MENTION=40592]hastur_nz[/MENTION] for bring this to my attention.

Increasing one square to equal 15 ft. is probably the simplest solution, although may cause some confusion during combat situations with a grid for players who are used to 5 ft. squares. I've been running this series for several months and while there have been a few occasions where space wasn't sufficient for Huge sized giants, it was easy enough to adjust this on the fly. We are about to start the Hall of the Fire Giant King and it looks like this will be less of an issue as most of the corridors are 20 ft wide and ceiling height is 30 - 40 ft.

 

[pukunui]

Increasing one square to equal 15 ft. is probably the simplest solution, although may cause some confusion during combat situations with a grid for players who are used to 5 ft. squares.

I doubt it'll be much of an issue these days, given that most of 5e's maps already use larger scales. I'd say most of them use 10 foot squares, but there are some that use even larger scales.

 

[Prakriti]

I mentioned this in a previous thread. It's an issue, and I'm not sure what the writers expected us to do about it (assuming they even noticed it). The Frost Giant lair is the most problematic, as it has the most 10' corridors.

If I ever run AtG, I plan to be candid with my players and explain the situation. Then, for a solution, I'll propose that giants can move through 10' corridors without squeezing (i.e. it doesn't cost them extra movement) for this adventure. That seems to be the only solution that doesn't introduce problems of its own.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

I suggest purchasing Mike Schley's Againt the Giants maps for Dungeon magazine. The maps are bigger than the original module, and also make a bit more sense.

Wizards.com have some really nice versions of the original maps, which you can download for free. These were all part of the "mapf of the week" articles. Hill Giants, Frost Giants, Fire Giants.

If you keep the maps at one square = 10 feet then the giants can still move around. Controlling 15ft in combat doesn't mean you are 15 feet wide.

 

[pukunui]

I suggest purchasing Mike Schley's Againt the Giants maps for Dungeon magazine. The maps are bigger than the original module, and also make a bit more sense.

While they use a different scale (5 ft squares instead of 10 ft ones), they look to me to be the same dimensions overall. Also, they aren't exactly the same.

If you keep the maps at one square = 10 feet then the giants can still move around. Controlling 15ft in combat doesn't mean you are 15 feet wide.

Sure. Nevertheless, a Huge creature is technically squeezing when moving through a 10-foot wide passage.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Has anyone else noticed that WotC was a little too faithful in their Against the Giants conversion, at least in terms of the size of the various giant lairs? Given how much bigger giants are in 5e, they're going to have trouble squeezing through all those 10-foot wide corridors and 7-foot wide doors. Some of them might also end up scraping their heads on the ceilings.

It's not that different from the fact that in 5E, humans technically can't fit into a 3' wide corridor at all. If you stretch the rules a bit and rule that Squeezing Into Smaller Spaces lets Medium creatures squeeze into a Tiny space since Small and Medium are actually the same size, then a human can fit into a 3' wide corridor but can move only at half speed.

I guess a 5E human would be really uncomfortable in an Earth house, where 3' wide is a pretty standard hallway width for anything except a public building like a school or a hospital which is designed for two-way traffic.

So, when it comes to giants, I'd just leave the corridors at 10'-12' wide (giants can probably fit in 10' hallways comfortably) but raise the ceiling height to 30' or so. Then change the rules appropriately so that giants in 10' hallways can still move at full speed. (Disadavantage on attacks is probably fine though.)

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

While they use a different scale (5 ft squares instead of 10 ft ones), they look to me to be the same dimensions overall. Also, they aren't exactly the same.

Correct. Schley's maps are different from those in the original G1-3 modules. For example, he's widened the 10ft corridors in the Hill Giant Steading to 15ft.

He's also rearranged rooms and passages to make more sense according to the new adventure. For example, there were a lot of corridors in the old adventure that just didn't make sense, given that the Steading was supposed to be something put up recently in a hurry.

As for the squeezing: I am a 5' 10" tall humanoid. I can freely move through a 2'8" doorway and a 3'3" hallway (both pretty standard for this country). A 12-15ft tall giant should be able to move fine through a 10' hallway.

Fighting effectively, is different. I imagine I'd be at a big disadvantage with a sword or hammer in a hallway (but I'd be great with a spear .

Clever players should use this to their advantage when fighting giants.

 

[pukunui]

He's also rearranged rooms and passages to make more sense according to the new adventure. For example, there were a lot of corridors in the old adventure that just didn't make sense, given that the Steading was supposed to be something put up recently in a hurry.

The maps are different enough that I'm not sure how usable they are with this version of the adventure, is what I'm saying. I'd have to study them more closely while reading through the adventure, and I'm not up to it yet. (Still on Tamoachan.)

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

The maps are different enough that I'm not sure how usable they are with this version of the adventure, is what I'm saying.

Yeah, I should have made that a lot clearer, sorry about that.

They are different enough that you cannot just print them and use them at the table. I am running G1-3 at the moment and I have had to do some conversion work.