Thanks, guys, you've ruined Haste for the rest of us.

[SimonMoon5]

Okay, so a bunch of people complained and now Haste is nerfed. Thanks a lot.

What about those of us who thought Haste was perfectly fine the way it was? How can a wizard now hope to keep up with the damage that a fighter can do?

"Quicken Spell" is the reason for the nerf? People won't take Quicken Spell if they can use Haste? That's odd; my wizard uses *both* Haste and Quicken Spell. Quicken Spell as written is not powerful enough to take Haste's place.

And now, Haste is a very silly spell. It's a spell that makes you faster, but you can't actually move faster. (You no longer have the option to use your partial action for movement.) And fights will be silly... A wizard casts "New Haste" and then gets an extra attack... so, what, he throws a dagger or something? And then each round he casts a spell and throws a dagger?

However, there is one hope left for wizards, though it comes from "Magic of Rokugan". Players of wizards must beg and plead with their DMs to let them use Magic of Rokugan, I suppose, but that shouldn't be too hard, since Rokugan is kinda sorta the offical universe for Oriental Adventures, and Oriental Adventures is an official setting... So, if a wizard is allowed to use "Magic of Rokugan," he can cast "Hurried Steps," a 2nd level spell which is a personal version of Haste that gives you an extra partial action each round that can only be used to cast a spell. And "New Haste" will stack with it now.

 

[IceBear]

Maybe the old haste spell will become a 4th or 5th level spell called Improved Haste in the revised books. You're right though. The name of the new Haste doesn't make sense. It should be speed attack or something.

I find it so weird that spellcasters are complaining they can't keep up with fighters in combat. After years of hearing the complaint from the fighters, this version of it just strikes me as odd

IceBear

 

[Sagan Darkside]

What about those of us who thought Haste was perfectly fine the way it was? How can a wizard now hope to keep up with the damage that a fighter can do?

Err.. you don't have to use the change, but I think it is funny you mention a wizard keeping up with a fighter. At higher levels that ball rarely leaves the wizard's court.

SD

 

[hammymchamham]

Just use rule 0 and go back to the original version when 3.5 comes out

 

[SimonMoon5]

Just use rule 0 and go back to the original version when 3.5 comes out

Yeah, but what if I'm not the DM?

 

[Fenes 2]

First, no one prevents you from houseruling the old haste in, just as nothing prevented me from banning the 3.0E haste in my game since it made spellcasters in my campaign overpowered. It is a bit preposterous to blame some people for ruining haste for you since noone forces you to chnage it in your game.

Second, the 2E haste did not speed up spellcasting, so the name is just fine - no need to change it to "speed attack" or something.

 

[Thresher]

As your GM about it, not us.

 

[hammymchamham]

Yeah, but what if I'm not the DM?

The DM has always been free to rule 0 stuff. I have 2 dm's and don't agree with ever house rule they use. But I still have fun. Maybe talk to the DM. If they say 'I'm going to use 3.5 100%' they may be willing to have some leeway and rule 0 some things.

 

[IceBear]

First, no one prevents you from houseruling the old haste in, just as nothing prevented me from banning the 3.0E haste in my game since it made spellcasters in my campaign overpowered. It is a bit preposterous to blame some people for ruining haste for you since noone forces you to chnage it in your game.

Second, the 2E haste did not speed up spellcasting, so the name is just fine - no need to change it to "speed attack" or something.

I was semi-joking. I believe the 2nd Edition version did double your movement rate too (I could be remembering wrong there though). This one really doesn't "haste" you. It lets you get an extra attack. That's all I was pointing out.

I had no problems with the 2nd Edition version not allowing you to cast extra spells. The way it was described - your metabolism speeding up so you moved twice as fast (and got more attacks) made sense. Since you could rationalize that magic could only be manipulated at a certain speed, I could see why - even if you were faster - why you couldn't use magic faster.

Again, this one gives you an AC bonus for being able to dodge faster and gives you an extra attack, but it doesn't seem to be "haste" to me. I could care less about the name myself, I can just see a newbie player saying "If it hastes me, why can't I move faster?"

IceBear

 

[SimonMoon5]

Maybe talk to the DM. If they say 'I'm going to use 3.5 100%' they may be willing to have some leeway and rule 0 some things.

Ah, I see. So the change to Haste is fine, because maybe the DM won't use it?

Well, the change will certainly make damage-dealing spells even more pointless than they already are. A mid-level fighter will get three attacks, plus one for Haste and maybe more (if using two-weapon fighting or Rapid Shot), for about 30 points of damage with each attack, for a total of about 120 to 150 points of damage. A wizard can cast one fireball to do 10d6 damage, save for half, meaning about 17 points of damage, once a round. Yeah, that seems balanced.