D&D 5E The 2024 Ranger is Actually Pretty Good (with numbers)

[Ashrym]

Maybe the best would be to add that number of 1st level slots to ranger that can be used ONLY ON RANGER spells.
to prevent multiclass dip cheese.

Rangers already have plenty of 1st level slots. 4 of them at 5th level as opposed to 4 of them at 3rd level on a full caster. Rangers, unlike paladins, have a lot more room to cast those other ranger spells because they gain free castings of Hunter's Mark. Hunter's Mark also lasts long enough for multiple fights.

Smites on a single attack burn through spell slots so paladins are the class that ends up short on other spells.

Up to 10 1st level spell slots seems rather excessive in comparison to other classes whether they can only be spent on ranger spells or not.

after a few spells of a given level rest is just maybe contingency.
after a 1st spell known, a slot is worth much more.

Yes, a slot is worth more. That's why the standard is 4 1st level slots. Giving rangers 2.5x that standard seems excessive.

as it is not tied to prof bonus, every instance of +1 usage at levels 5,9,13,17 is using your class resource pool that could be used on something else. even if trivial as +1 skill or few extra tools/languages.

That's arguing semantics. Rangers gain a free use with every PB increase. The value of the ability doesn't change whether it's explicitly tied to that PB bonus or not outside of multi-class leveraging.

for me in 5E and it's variants, best version is from Scout class from SW5E:

RANGER’S QUARRY​

Spoiler: Quarry

Scout: 1st, 5th, 9th, and 17th level
You learn how to effectively read and track your prey. Once on each of your turns, you can choose a creature you can see within 120 feet and mark it as your quarry (no action required). For the next hour, you gain the following benefits:

• Once per turn, when you hit the target with a weapon attack, you can deal 1d4 additional damage to it of the same type as the weapon’s damage. This die changes as you gain scout levels, as shown in the Ranger’s Quarry column of the scout table.
• You have advantage on any Wisdom (Perception) or Wisdom (Survival) check you make to find it while it’s on the same planet as you.

You can only have one creature marked in this way at a time. Beginning at 5th level, you can use your reaction to mark a creature when it enters your line of sight, provided it is within range of your Ranger’s Quarry.

The duration increases to 8 hours at 9th level and 24 hours at 17th level.

Honestly, I would add Insight to the list as it represents primal sense when someone is afraid/nervous/twitchy.

add that as base feature and bonus spellcasting per Long rest can go to Cure wounds or similar utility.

Seems like an eat your cake and have it too approach.

Ranger's Quarry doesn't look bad. I see pros and cons compared to Favored Enemy. Loading up on 1st level slots beyond other classes isn't something I would agree with.

 

[CreamCloud0]

regardless of any amount of extra uses or improvements they give me the worth of those features will always be 0 as HM is not a spell i ever have any interest in casting, i love the ranger, i couldn't care less about HM.

 

[Horwath]

regardless of any amount of extra uses or improvements they give me the worth of those features will always be 0 as HM is not a spell i ever have any interest in casting, i love the ranger, i couldn't care less about HM.

that is the problem.
HM and it's "improvements" eats away at class resource pool that could have been spent elsewhere.

 

[Minigiant]

regardless of any amount of extra uses or improvements they give me the worth of those features will always be 0 as HM is not a spell i ever have any interest in casting, i love the ranger, i couldn't care less about HM.

The core problem is that 5.5e has to be backwards compatible with 5em

So what is a spell in 2014 must be a spell in 2024.

that is the problem.
HM and it's "improvements" eats away at class resource pool that could have been spent elsewhere.

Spend on what exactly?

 

[CreamCloud0]

The core problem is that 5.5e has to be backwards compatible with 5em

So what is a spell in 2014 must be a spell in 2024.

true, but that is no reason that the class had to be built with the spell as part of it's spine.

Spend on what exactly?

anything else really, personally (i don't know if i mentioned this here or in the other ranger thread) i would've much rather had something similar to the land druid subclass as part of the ranger gaining an expanded spell list, resistances and similar boons as they level up. just look at how baldur's gate 3 manages something very similar with it's ranger with both it's favoured enemy and natural explorer features.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Maybe so, but I have seen so many encounters where the party has been massacred because they are incompetent at long range that it becomes tiresome to have to dumb down encounters (spells do not have the range of bows).

Funny thing: there are such things like bushes, trees, obscurement spells and so on that allows you to close gaps quite well. Often players who try to keep out of melee will also be focus fired by the enemy. And that can easily lead to one dead character even if one enemy dies.

Yes, dying in 5e is not so fast at higher levels. But being down one character can be devastating in small groups.

If the ranger isn’t going to cover that, who is?

Fighter? Rogue? Wizard?

I’m not saying that all rangers must be Dex builds, I’m just refuting the claim that wisdom builds are the only viable build, because wisdom builds are poor at range.

Correct. I am also questioning the wisdom of those people.

Even in a regular encounter, ranged characters probably get in one more attack than melee. This white room assumption that all encounters occur at melee range is garbage.

Same for tge idea that ranged characters can easily keep the distance. And long range weapon and shield usage is somewhat problematic.

I haven’t seen many rangers played in 5e, but I one we did have pivoted from melee to archery because they found range was such a huge advantage.

There is nothing wrong with using both and being flexible. Bow into two weapon fighting is easy. You just have to decide which fighting style helps you more.

 

[Lord Twig]

Also, can you bonus action command the beast to attack and also use one of your attacks to do so and end up with the beast doing 4 attacks?

No. You can do either one or the other. You can't do both in the same round.

 

[Minigiant]

true, but that is no reason that the class had to be built with the spell as part of it's spine.

There is a reason if you are mostly not creating anything new and now commiting the playtest time to it

And that ultimately is likely wait deal the final blows...

anything else really, personally (i don't know if i mentioned this here or in the other ranger thread) i would've much rather had something similar to the land druid subclass as part of the ranger gaining an expanded spell list, resistances and similar boons as they level up. just look at how baldur's gate 3 manages something very similar with it's ranger with both it's favoured enemy and natural explorer features.

...there is no way WOTC is going to give a top 6 popular class a third choice at level 1.

1. Choose your Weapon Mastery
2. Choose your Spells
3. Choose your Favored Enemy

That's objectively bad design for a non-advanced game..

And that's likely what solidified the 5.5e team's choice of the simplified Favored Enemy.

 

[Minigiant]

No. You can do either one or the other. You can't do both in the same round.

Technically you can do both.

The issue is the Beast only has 1 Action.

You can command it with a sacrificed attack then bonus action. However the beast would lack the ability to make another action.

 

[Xeviat]

But Hunter's Mark without concentration is OP in the hands of any class with concentration buffs..

I fundamentally disagree, or at least that Hunter's Mark has to be OP in the hands of any class with concentration buffs.

Divine Favor is almost exactly the same as Hunter's Mark, it just deals 1d4s instead of 1d6s, but it targets yourself, not enemies. Divine Favor can be stacked with concentration buffs, the paladin has them. They specifically removed concentration from Divine Favor and most of the Smite spells because it's not unbalanced.

Hunter's Mark has a longer duration than divine favor, and deals more damage. It could have been changed to lose the ability to switch targets; then Hunter's Mark becomes something you save for enemies with a lot of HP, and it has a niche instead of being the go to. The ranger class could even give you a bennie when you defeat a marked target (similarly, Hex could get the same change, and each patron could give different bennies like they did in 4E).

It's +1 damage over Divine Favor. Just give it a different drawback (like not being able to switch it) and remove concentration.