D&D (2024) The Battle Master Paradigm

Tony Vargas

Legend
t think about this for a moment. We can easily narrow the Battlemaster's ONLY redeeming feature to THREE OPTIONS. Which is everything they learn at 3rd level. Everything after 3rd level is just going down hill.
You don't even need to have an objective rating of maneuvers to see the issue here. All the BM's maneuvers are available to choose from at level 3, so, at level three, the player picks the maneuvers he considers best, or that best fit his concept or build or whatever. His top 3 choices...

...and, regardless of what an erudite optimizer might think of those choices, next time he picks maneuvers, at higher level, he's taking 4th and later choices.

There need to be more maneuvers, and they need to be apportioned over levels, with higher level maneuvers being better than anything the BM has now.
 

log in or register to remove this ad


Clint_L

Hero
Yes, Battlemasters are really good. I mean, so are fighters, and Battlemasters are their second best subclass. In general, the consensus about classes and subclasses is correct, since these are subjective arguments anyway. But just in terms of raw numbers the Battlemaster is up there, and they have a lot of interesting options on the battlefield - sometimes it seems like their turn never ends. While it's true that some of their maneuvers are more frequently useful than others...what class isn't this true for? Only a few invocations are "must-haves," a few weapons, a few spells.

I don't fully buy your criticism of the BM's Know Your Enemy ability. You aren't just telling the wizard, you are telling the whole party, because you are the "battle master" and the point isn't for you to do all the damage yourself (though BM's are outstanding damage dealers) but to help your party win the battle through your tactical acumen. It's right in the name! But that said, I feel like this is an ability that should be usable at least as many times as the BM's proficiency modifier, and should give them advantage on their next attack against that creature, as well.
 
Last edited:

Kobold Stew

Last Guy in the Airlock
Supporter
The Battlemaster is, for me, a subclass that lets you build your favorite fantasy fighter. Many ideas that I have* work with the mix-and-match style. You are right that it's all about maneuvers (and so let's ignore Student of War and Know Your Enemy). But the progression for maneuvers is better than you suggest:

Level 3: 3 maneuvers, 4xd8
Level 7: 5 maneuvers, 5xd8
Level 10: 7 maneuvers, 5xd10
Level 15: 9 maneuvers, 6xd10 plus unlimited d8s (relentless)
Level 18: 9 manuevers, 6xd12 plus unlimited d8s (relentless)

That is steady growth throughout the class, with the option of developing and expanding fighting styles as you go.

As for specific maneuvers, I'll make a point about the options available in post below. But: Tasha's has a magnificent 3 pages of various Battlemaster builds. I love those pages, because they give specific guidelines for various builds. I truly hope that the new PHB includes those guidelines.



* Not the retiarius, admittedly, but that's now possible with the playtest rules now; yay.
 

Weiley31

Legend
I still liked how balls to the walls you could go with the Battlemaster with the Squire of Solamnia Feature and the Knightly Order feats from the Krynn Revisited UA.

Goodness, so many SUPERIORITY DIE and like almost all the Combat Manuevers if you decided to go full ham with giving yourself a few extra Superiority Die via Martial Adept and the Fighting Adept feat for the Superior Technique fighting style.
 

Kobold Stew

Last Guy in the Airlock
Supporter
Ranking Maneuvers.

There are lots of good choices, I feel. There are twenty options, and they're not all gold, admittedly. Nevertheless, I feel there's good options (though some I've never seen played, marked untested). I'll rank them as Tier 1 (definitely consider for level 3), tier 2 (maybe take one at level 3, for a quirk or utility option; probably take one at level 7), and tier 3 (probably not consider unless central to character concept).

Bait and Switch (Tier 3, untested). Feels niche.
Commander's Strike (Tier 1). Creates teamwork, makes you feel like the party leader. Synergizes with Rogue perfectly.
Disarming Attack (Tier 2, but awesome). Won't be used all the time, but lets you do something not normally possible, and so very cool when fighting a big bad.
Distracting Strike (Tier 3, untested). I've never liked this because it depends on the initiative. It should synergize with the Rogue, but the rogue usually has a higher initiative. Never played it.
Evasive Strike (Tier 3, untested). Even with the slight buff it's got in PT7, why is the battlemaster leaving combat? Take the hit.
Feinting Attack (Tier 1). Solid choice for any build.
Goading Attack (Tier 2). Taunt! Fun to play, even if it's drawing fire.
Lunging Attack (Tier 3). How often is that 10' going to matter?
Maneuvering Attack (Tier 3, untested). Another teamwork option, but it uses up your ally's reaction for their positioning.
Menacing Attack (Tier 1). Terrify!
Parry (Tier 3). The Damage reduction is improved in PT7, but I'm not sure after level 5 or 6 if it's ever worth it.
Precision (Tier 1). Even better after PT7, when you need to hit, here you go. You get to use it after you know you miss too, so it gives you a chance to connect when otherwise you wouldn't.
Pushing Attack (Tier 1). Punch someone 15' away from you; hit them with your sling and cause them to fly back off a cliff. Whatever fantasy hit you think of, this lets you do it. Fun as all getout.
Riposte (Tier 1). A bonus attack on your enemy's turn.
Sweeping Attack (Tier 3, untested). Unlikely to tip any combat in your favour. It does seem to be a fun way to get rid of a spellcaster's familiar, but how often will that come up?
Trip Attack (Tier 1). Knocks someone Prone.
Ambush (Tier 2). Bonus to Stealth. Always useful in Heavy Armor, even if not always worth a die.
Commanding Presence (Tier 2). Bonus to Persuasion or Intimidation. Great out of combat option especially when people tend to use Charisma as a dumpstat. This belies that choice.
Rally (Tier 3). Giving THP to a party member can be useful, but I'm not sure it's your job.
Tactical Assessment (Tier 3). Bonus to History, Investigation, or Insight. Don't get me wrong; I think Investigation is hugely underrated, and it's useful if you think you are dealing with an illusion. I just wouldn't choose it on the chance I'd be running into an illusion.

So, by my ranking:
COMBAT: 7 at tier 1, 2 at tier 2, and 7 at tier 3. I suspect that any battlemaster I've played has taken at least one of the tier 2 options. I'd say there are 9 good choice.

UTILITY: 2 at tier 2, 2 at tier 3. Picking up one of the tier 2 options at level 7 makes sense to me; Commanding Presence would always be my choice, but I realize that's personal.

I make that eleven good-to-great choices, and a level 10 character is likely to have anything they want, and will only get stronger from there. That feels solid to me. I'm happy to have any of these ratings challenged -- that's not the point of the exercise. The point is to show that throughout the battlemaster's career, there are always going to be reasonable choices available, and even if there's a maneuver that seems lame to me, someone will like it for them (as with Tactical Assessment, which I do like, even if I wouldn't choose it.)

I'll add one more thing: Many of the maneuvers have been changed to any attack roll. That means they'll work with the new True Strike, if you want to make a character that attacks with Int, Wis, Cha. It won't work with Extra Attack, but it justifies a 3-level dip into Battlemaster for some fun combat options if that's what you are doing.

All this is to say, I think Battlemaster remains very, very strong, and has solid (though perhaps not optimized) choices all the way through. My last Battlemaster was a pit-fighter/boxer using the Unarmed fighting style (and so before the Brawler was announced), and though the game didn't last, it was a blast to play.
 
Last edited:





Remove ads

Top