The Best Core only Warrior builds?

[Deset Gled]

By Core, I mean whats in the Players Handbook I and II, plus the DM guide..

Did the PHII make the 20th level fighter the most powerful melee type for Core only?

The PHB II is not core by a long shot. I recommend changing your thread title.

Core only, multiclassing is key. Rogue is a great dip for most builds. Barbarian and Ranger are good if you can afford to give up the heavy armor. Dwarven Defender is also a very powerful option.

I have not seen too many PHB II feats in play, but it does have a huge effect on the effectiveness of a single class fighter.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

I have not seen too many PHB II feats in play, but it does have a huge effect on the effectiveness of a single class fighter.

I'm not so sure of that. Yes, it does make Fighter 4 more attractive, but amny builds took it already for the 3 feats. The problem there is that most of the cool feats are only BAB dependent, but not fighter level dependent.

 

[monboesen]

I question the value of the dip into the Rogue class myself.

I'm very likely biased as I like to actually have some skills other than climb, jump, ride and swim (like balance, listen, spot and some social skills as well). But as you correctly noted, when starting at 1 level this aint much of a warrior build. But already at 2 level that level of barbarian will transform you into a competent warrior only 1 BAB behind the regular ones.


As for sneak attack being situational, sure. But IME it will work in at least 80% of all fights. Thats 2d6 easy extra points of damage on most attacks. I'll wager that it beats weapon specialisation in the long run in most campaigns.

Feats. Well nothing prevents you from taking Power attack and Cleave. Two feats that any warrior will want along the way.


To me those 4 levels of Rogue just cant be beat.


Going by standard array it will be something like this

Human rogue1
Str: 15
Dex: 13
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 12
Cha: 8

HP: 8
AC: 14 (std. leather)
Move: 30 ft.
Fort +2, Refl +3, Will +1

Attack: Longspear +2 (1d8+3) or light crossbow +1 (1d6); sneak attack +1d6

Skills: Balance +5, Bluff +3, Climb +6, Jump +6, Listen +5, Search +4, Sense Motive +5, Spot +5, Swim +6

Feats: Power Attack, Cleave



Human rogue1/barbarian1
Str: 15
Dex: 13
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 12
Cha: 8

HP: 16
AC: 15 (chain shirt)
Move: 40 ft.
Fort +4, Refl +3, Will +1

Attack: Greatsword +3 (2d6+3) or light crossbow +1 (1d6); sneak attack +1d6

Skills: Balance +5, Bluff +3, Climb +7, Jump +6, Listen +6, Ride +3, Search +4, Sense Motive +5, Spot +5, Swim +7

Feats: Power Attack, Cleave

Raging
HP: 20
AC 13
Attack Greatsword +5 (2d6+6); sneak attack +1d6

 

[Shazman]

PHB II went a long way to improve the fighter's effectiveness. A straight barbarian might have him beat, but not by much. The simplest effective build is probably still a barbarian.

 

[Carfax]

Thanks for the recommendation guys.

Do you think it's best to have more barbarian levels or fighter levels in a Fighter/Barbarian multiclass?

 

[Bagpuss]

As for sneak attack being situational, sure. But IME it will work in at least 80% of all fights. Thats 2d6 easy extra points of damage on most attacks. I'll wager that it beats weapon specialisation in the long run in most campaigns.

Not a fair comparison as that's 4 level of Rogue, so at least two feats if you'd gone Fighter.

So I don't think it beats Weapon Specialisation and Melee Weapon Mastery and putting the additional +1 BAB and the attack bonus from Melee Weapon Mastery into a power attack with a two handed weapon.

so +2 from Weapon Specialisation, +2 (+1 BAB using Power Attack), +2 (Melee Weapon Mastery), +4 (attack bonus from MWM used with Power Attack)*

So assuming the same change to hit as your sneak attacking rogue. You've got +10 damage in comparison. I think that betters 2d6 (average 6 points), and is applicable in more situations.

You can catch up later as you are taking additional fighter levels but then a pure fighter can pick up other feats, like Slashing Furry and effectively stay even or ahead of the game. You do win out on skills of course, but you lose out in other areas. I think it's pretty balanced over all, certainly not a 'must-take' however.

* I know technical you can't shift non BAB increases to PA, but if you have a to attack bonus from somewhere else it effectively frees up BAB you would normally use on the attack roll to be used from damage. So having the same change to hit as the sneak attacking rogue.

 

[Particle_Man]

Well there is always the Spiked Chain Monkey (20 Human Fighter):
Needs: Int: 13, Dex: 13, and high Str. Good Con always helps.
And Wisdom is good for keeping the Will save up (though magic items will be needed there too).

H: Exotic Weapon Proficiency
1: Weapon Focus
1: Combat Expertise
2: Dodge
4: Weapon Specialization
6: Mobility
6: Spring Attack
8: Meelee Weapon Mastery (PHB II)
9: Greater Weapon Focus
10: Improved Critical
12: Greater Weapon Specialization
12: Whirlwind Attack
14: Combat Reflexes
15: Improved Disarm
16: Improved Trip
18: Weapon Supremacy (PHB II)
18: Bounding Assault (PHB II)
20: Rapid Blitz (PHB II)

If you are worried about the will save, you can drop a few of these to get help from the feats in PHB II (and Iron Will, of course). PHB II also has some nice 15th+ feats like Defensive Sweep. I am also assuming that, contrary to what it actually states in the PHB II, that the feats in PHB II that should be fighter bonus feat eligible, are, as the alternative seems silly to me. But if you play that way, you can shuffle the PHB II feats around to fit the "normal", non-fighter bonus feat slots. Except you would lose Rapid Blitz (can't get both it and Weapon Supremacy pre-epic), so maybe take Defensive Sweep instead.

 

[Mistwell]

Gotta be the chain tripper build. An oldie but a goodie. I believe this is the archieve of the original thread on that topic:

http://boards1.wizards.com/archive/index.php/t-163005.html

 

[Darklone]

Warrior is a NPC class. (chuckle)

Yet I've beat a PC barbarian more than once one-on-one with a warrior. Good AC won't work against many monsters... but it works against most PCs.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

Thanks for the recommendation guys.

Do you think it's best to have more barbarian levels or fighter levels in a Fighter/Barbarian multiclass?

If you want to go the Wepons focus/Specialization/Mastery tree, take four levels of fighter. Otherwise I would jsut go with the barbarian and get the cooler barbarain abilities.

I do think the rogue suggestions are good, as they lose very little BAB, and if your con is high the hit point loss is not terrible. And getting sneak attack from flanking is pretty simple.