irdeggman said:So psions have 8 (not counting discipline specific powers with exp costs). Depending on the discipline the psion can end up with from 8 to 12.
Sorcerers have 6.
Pretty close unless you count them as a percentage of powers/spells then it goes something like this.
Sorcerers have 6 out 370 spells with exp costs. {1.6 % of total spells}
Psions have between 8 and 12 out of somewhere around 177 (I used an average of 16 powers per discipline) {4.5 to 6.8 %}. More than double the percentage.
Thanks for doing the legwork on this.
But, the number and percentages is not what is important here. What is important in a comparison between a Psion and a Sorcerer are powers which actually have Sorcerer equivalent spells (which I mentioned earlier).
If the spell or the power has no corresponding power or spell, then it does not matter that they cost XP. If they are powers that Sorcerers cannot emulate, then whether they cost XP or not is irrelevant to the discussion. Mega-powers and mega-spells should cost XP and we have nothing to compare them to.
Just like it is irrelevant that Permanency cost more XP when used for non-personal spells. This is not a Sorcerer disadvantage. It is the cost of doing business with mega-effects for the Sorcerer. Some spells / powers are severely limited because they are game breaking if used a lot.
In fact, it is basically a Psion advantage that he has so many of these mega-powers (which go way outside the normal game parameters as to what can be accomplished) to choose from. You'll notice that the vast majoirty of the Psion Only powers that cost XP are 8th or 9th level powers. For example, Mind Switch, True is effectively eternal youth. A lot of these powers have huge benefits, in some cases surpassing minor Epic Level spells.
From this analysis, it appears to me that there are two merits here, one for Sorcerers and one for Psions:
1) Psions get more "mega-powers" (i.e. ones which are extremely powerful and cost XP because of it).
2) There are 5 powers for which Psions have to pay XP whereas Sorcerers do not have to pay XP.
The following 5 powers and spells are the ones which both of them get (at least to my knowledge, I am not very familiar with a lot of the high level Sorcerer spells, correct me if I made a mistake), but for which the Psion pays XP and the Sorcerer does not:
Similar Power and Spells, one of which cost XP:
Contingency, Psionic
Level: Psion/wilder 6
Power Points: 11, XP (15)
Contingency
Level:Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M (unusual) , F (1500 GP)
Sequester, Psionic
Level: Psion/wilder 7
Power Points: 13, XP
XP Cost: 75 XP
Sequester
Level: Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, M
Mind Switch
Level: Telepath 6
Power Points: 11, XP (100)
Magic Jar (you do not keep supernatural or spell-like abilities, you do not get to pick specific targets)
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, F (100 GP)
Metamorphosis, Greater
Level: Egoist 9
Power Points: 17, XP (200)
Shapechange
Level: Animal 9, Drd 9, Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S, F
Remote Viewing
Level: Seer 4
Power Points: 7, XP (20)
Scrying (cannot be done across planar boundaries)
Level: Brd 3, Clr 5, Drd 4, Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S, M/DF, F (1000 GP)
Similar Power and Spells, both of which cost XP. These look like a wash to me.
Incarnate
Level: Psion/wilder 5
Power Points: 9, XP (500 to 2,000)
Permanency
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, XP (500 – 2,500 for personal spells)
Bend Reality
Level: Psion/wilder 8
Power Points: 15, XP (300+)
Limited Wish
Level: Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, XP (300+)
Reality Revision
Level: Psion/wilder 9
Power Points: 17, XP (5,000+)
Wish
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, XP (5,000+)
Powers which have no corresponding spell. Psion advantage, regardless of the fact that they cost XP:
Psychic Reformation
Level: Psion/wilder 4
Power Points: 7, XP; see text
XP Cost: This power costs 50 XP to manifest to reformat choices made when the character reached her current level. For each additional previous level into which the revision reaches, the power costs an additional 50 XP. The manifester and subject split all XP costs evenly.
Matter Manipulation
Level: Psion/wilder 8
Power Points: 15, XP (250/hardness point)
Apopsi
Level: Psion/wilder 9
Power Points: 17, XP (50/level of power deleted)
Psionic Revivify
Level: Egoist 5
Power Points: 9, XP (200+)
Fusion
Level: Egoist 8
Power Points: 15, XP (50)
Mind Seed
Level: Telepath 8
Power Points: 15, XP (3,000)
Mind Switch, True
Level: Telepath 9
Power Points: 17, XP (10,000)
Time Regression
Level: Nomad 9
Power Points: 17, XP (1,000)
Genesis
Level: Shaper 9
Power Points: 17, XP (1,000)
Psychic Chirurgery (Transfer Knowledge Only)
Level: Telepath 9
Power Points: 17, XP (1000 x level of power implanted)
Metafaculty
Level: Seer 9
Power Points: 17, XP (1,000)
True Creation
Level: Shaper 9
Power Points: 17, XP (1/5 gp value, 1+)
Spells which have no corresponding power. Sorcerer advantage, regardless of the fact that they cost XP:
Simulacrum
Level: Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, M, XP (100/HD of simulacrum, minimum 1,000)
Vision
Level: Sor/Wiz 7
Components: V, S, M, XP (100)
Gate
Level: Clr 9, Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S, XP(1,000 when calling a creature only)
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