D&D (2024) The Cleric should be retired

[Horwath]

Honestly if a class needs to go it’s the paladin. The cleric is the original holy warrior that is adaptable to any culture. The Paladin is originally a very narrow interpretation of Christian ideals and with the de-emphasis of alignment has no real niche in the game.

all classes need to go, just pick 2 or 3 feats every level.

 

[wizard71]

Paladin was this narrowly defined class, but clerics were also narrowly the mace swinging Templar/Hispitaler type of christian holy man. In 5e with oaths paladin is more of a champion of a cause. Arcana Unearthed / Arcana Evolved (from Monte Cook) has a champion class which is actually a much better version of the paladin concept than any TSR/WotC version ever was. The paladin has a clear role.

The cleric also has a clear role. And organized religion is all around the world. But the questing / adventuring cleric has next to no literaly backup. The holy man, seers, diviners, healers mostly stay in one place, and the protagonist(s) visit them if needed. They could be key to the story, but rarely go out to do the stuff directly.

The cleric has no role? What about Friar Tuck from the Robin Hood legends? The Apostles and Saints of Christianity do perform holy miracles.

 

[FrogReaver]

Cleric to me was essentially the original Paladin. He was the Holy Warrior empowered by god concept. And in 5e he still is - since Paladin went oath based power - a concept which has much less fictional representation than holy warrior empowered by god.

 

[James Gasik]

The cleric has no role? What about Friar Tuck from the Robin Hood legends? The Apostles and Saints of Christianity do perform holy miracles.

They don't, however, wear armor and clock skeletons upside the noggin' with warhammers or maces.

 

[Yaarel]

The cleric has no role? What about Friar Tuck from the Robin Hood legends? The Apostles and Saints of Christianity do perform holy miracles.

Is Friar Tuck more like a Fighter with an Acolyte Background?

I dont remember him casting spells, tho a Magic Initiate Background Feat can grant the slot 1 Bless spell and two cantrips.

We know he enjoys ale, and probably his holy order community produces ale for financial revenue. So his Background includes a Brewer tool set.

 

[Yaarel]

Cleric to me was essentially the original Paladin. He was the Holy Warrior empowered by god concept. And in 5e he still is - since Paladin went oath based power - a concept which has much less fictional representation than holy warrior empowered by god.

The Paladin is a great way to represent the Norse masculine warrior magic of Song (ljóð), which is moreorless the abjuration spell school, including protective spells, healing, and resurrection. The oath is of courageous and honorable combat, that favors face-to-face melee combat but still allows ranged combat such as before engaging the enemy while on ship.

An "Oath Cleric" is a fullcaster version of this same concept. Courage is a Norse fundamental ethical principle, especially for a masculine gender.

 

[kunadam]

The cleric has no role? What about Friar Tuck from the Robin Hood legends? The Apostles and Saints of Christianity do perform holy miracles.

I said that is has a role, but the adenturing cleric has not literary backup.
Friar Tuck is a monk (in a D&D class way too)
Saints come from various background. Two of the Hungarian kings are saints, and none would fit the cleric role (one could fit a paladin though).
The miracle working hermit / evangelizer type is not well captured by the class (I would like the cleric class to be more like that)

 

[Vikingkingq]

They don't, however, wear armor and clock skeletons upside the noggin' with warhammers or maces.

Turpin, Odo, various medieval/Renaissance popes and Prince-Bishops did, the skeletons just had a bit more meat on the bones.

 

[Yaarel]

Turpin, Odo, various medieval/Renaissance popes and Prince-Bishops did, the skeletons just had a bit more meat on the bones.

To be fair, these individuals grew up with combat training.

A closer analogy to the Cleric class would be sacred communities that trained in combat.

 

[Neonchameleon]

To be fair, these individuals grew up with combat training.

A closer analogy to the Cleric class would be sacred communities that trained in combat.

And socially those are more akin to the way Paladins work with orders and generally ideals.