D&D General The DM Shortage

[overgeeked]

I can't help it if you misread what I said. I never said it was prevalent, I said there was a certain type of dungeon that was designed as a killer dungeon. It's my understanding that it's a lot of what the OSR movement is about as well, extremely dangerous scenarios designed to challenge the players.

Then your understanding of the OSR is extremely limited and wrong.

Meanwhile we have another poster of accusing me of lying because in my personal experience the games I played were not particularly deadly.

If someone says the sun isn't hot it's eyebrow raising. If you say that's your experience I believe you. I just want to know what the mountain of house rules were to get AD&D into a "no more deadly that 5E" space, because RAW AD&D is decidedly far more deadly than RAW 5E.

 

[Oofta]

Then your understanding of the OSR is extremely limited and wrong.

If someone says the sun isn't hot it's eyebrow raising. If you say that's your experience I believe you. I just want to know what the mountain of house rules were to get AD&D into a "no more deadly that 5E" space, because RAW AD&D is decidedly far more deadly than RAW 5E.

Were you at my tables? Did you monitor our games? We did not have a high attrition rate in our games, and I started with the chainmail rules.

Stop calling me a liar, you weren't there.

 

[overgeeked]

Stop calling me a liar, you weren't there.

Uh...

If you say that's your experience I believe you.

I'm not calling you a liar...

I just want to know what the mountain of house rules were to get AD&D into a "no more deadly that 5E" space, because RAW AD&D is decidedly far more deadly than RAW 5E.

Because RAW AD&D is far deadlier than RAW 5E. That's a fact that's evident by reading the rules of both games. If you played both RAW that would be evident to you.

The only way to square that circle is that there were house rules in play. That's great. I just want to know what those house rules were.

 

[Azzy]

Were you at my tables? Did you monitor our games? We did not have a high attrition rate in our games, and I started with the chainmail rules.

While I only started in 86, my experience is similar to yours.

 

[Oofta]

Uh...

I'm not calling you a liar...

Because RAW AD&D is far deadlier than RAW 5E. That's a fact that's evident by reading the rules of both games. If you played both RAW that would be evident to you.

The only way to square that circle is that there were house rules in play. That's great. I just want to know what those house rules were.

We didn't have many house rules as far as death and dying, in fact since 2E I've made getting raised from the dead more difficult for thematic reasons. We just didn't run super deadly games. But sure. I'm not lying, just what I'm saying can't possibly be true because it doesn't match your experience. I fail to see the distinction.

D&D has always been and is still as deadly as the DM wants it to be.

 

[MNblockhead]

I think the answer to a DM shortage lies not with D&D.

You need more simple games for kids that a family that has had little to no exposure to TTRPGs can pick up and play will relatively little prep.

No Thank You Evil! by Monte Cook Games is the best example I've seen. It is well produced and attractive. Something a parent or other relatie would easily feel comfortable picking of the shelf of a games section in Target.

The components are attractive. It is a TTRPG but still feels and looks like a child's game.

Most importantly, the rules are simple to learn and the examples and walkthroughs are excellent. The first adventure gives instructions at every point and by the second adventure you'll know how to play.

Once kids start playing games like this when little, it becomes so much easier to get into heavier systems like D&D when they are older and will be more comfortable running such games even if they don't feel confident in their rules mastery.

 

[tetrasodium]

Then your understanding of the OSR is extremely limited and wrong.

If someone says the sun isn't hot it's eyebrow raising. If you say that's your experience I believe you. I just want to know what the mountain of house rules were to get AD&D into a "no more deadly that 5E" space, because RAW AD&D is decidedly far more deadly than RAW 5E.

I think it comes down to what you consider "particularly deadly". People often misrepresent those older editions as being all DCC funnel style meatgrinders all the time. The lower levels had PCs sqyishy enough that it wasn't uncommon to laugh & write Jr or replace a letter in the name when someone's PC died a minute or two into the first encounter sure but kill rats/spiders/etc in the basement became a trope for a reason & it wasn't too uncommon to start out with a couple levels or magic items* Once players got over those initial early stages there was always raise dead from NPCs or near mythical 9th level priests Potions scrolls & wands helped PCs last too.

Sure players had characters go died but they knew death was easy for the careless & acted logically instead of dcc funnels or 5e style all leroy jenkins played by wolverine/deadpool all the time. Encounter design almost certainly played a big part too.

*after talking to the player & making sure that their character is going to fit the group/style of game the gm wants to run before deciding how or how much to boost them

 

[bloodtide]

Without going over the whole thread, I'm sure people have mentioned : DMing is hard, it takes time, and it takes a lot of work.

Though I doubt anyone mentioned:

It is all too often a thankless job-The DM goes through all the time and hard work to make and play a game. Players show up and play...and seem to have enough fun.....but then are just like "whatever" DM and drop some garbage on the floor. All too often a DM will get no thanks.

And it's only worse for the casual players! The DM puts weeks of hard work to create the game. Then goes through the hard work of running the game. Then some casual player just strolls into the game....late...sprawls out on a sofa ..makes jokes on how they "forgot their character and dice" and spill a Mt.Dew on themselves. Then they "play" the game by not paying attention at all and every so often say a gem like "Hey how do I roll to hit?" Then this casual player will say "oh DMs are just players just like me!"

Then, finally, while often no one has anything good to say....nearly everyone will whine and complain. Endlessly....about everything. Players will go way out of the way to attack, insult or otherwise fire negativity at the DM.

Few DMs have the will or ability to be a Hard Fun DM- Well, Hard Fun is my term for the DM that rules the game with a solid foot down and an iron fist. This DM forces the players to do the right things, both in and outside the game.

Of course this is hard in many ways. When your "friend" shows up for the game three hours "becuase they were busy", stumbles inside and drops some d20s on the floor with a "do I hit? How much XP do I get?" Do you invite this jerk in with open arms and just say "sure ruin the game for everyone " Or do you kick this non-friend out of your house and game forever? Well...see a LOT of DMs "can't" do that.

Not to mention when they "interprete" a rule on page 101 and say my sword does 2d20 damage...haha, DM eules says so!" And the DM does not have the will or ability to do or say anything.

Or how a player might say "my character dodges" and somehow think that gives them a bonus 100 to their AC. Then they will whine and argue that they can "never" be hit when they say that.

Or they have the player that does stupid stuff JUST to disrupt the game for EVERYONE. The PCs meet with the baron as part of the plot the other four players want to play through and the other player will be like "I attack the baron!"

Yea, you can "Talk" to such a player....and maybe it works, sometimes. BUT most of the time you really need to be the hard fun DM. And a lot of people are unwilling or unable to do that.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Yeah, it is difficult to work up such a glowing, simmering disdain for all players.

 

[pointofyou]

Yeah, it is difficult to work up such a glowing, simmering disdain for all players.

Especially when those players are also your friends. Doubly so when those friends are also sometimes your GMs.