D&D General The DM Shortage

[Micah Sweet]

The DMG's job should be to be a DM's guide. Not (just) a list of treasure tables and encounter tables.

It also has quite a few optional rules and worldbuilding advice. Improving on those things is, IMO, the way to go. The name is an artifact, maintained for traditions sake. I'd rather keep the content (conceptually) that we have than make the DMG something it is not.

 

[Digdude]

I think one of the biggest problems with 5e is, that is to much player enabling at the cost of the DM.
Even lvl 1 players are superheros (with glass chins).
Every book gets new player options, everything is geared towards the players being fantasy superheroes while DMs get the short end of the stick.
I mean, just look at the spelljammer box. The box sucks for DMs who want to do anything other with spelljammer than running the adventure it comes with. 5e doesn't give the DMs an example world or really any good tools to homebrew compared to other editions or games.
All the "worlds" they provided for 5e lack any depth and are just backdrops for the player-superhero-Action.
IG you want to create a meaningful living World with an engaging story, in 5e you have to do it from scratch and also have to reinvent all the tools needed for it because 5e doesn't provide any good ones. Like the 5e DMG is really bad. And what there is in the DMG is backwards (like, build a monster from scratch and than figure out the CR? Who would do it thar way, that's stupid!).
And OneDND goes more in the direction of player enabling and reducing the GM to a computer, with idiot stuff like the influence Action with fixed DCs, or successful hiding a DC 15.
In 5e and the OneDND Playtest the DMs is reduced more and more to a machine. And that is really no fun. It is a lot of work to create something fun for the DM and that's why there aren't many DMs. 5e RAW is super fun wishfulfilment superhereofantasy for players and the DMs are only there to enable that wishfulfilment.

This is a very good observation. I must say the power creep of 5e is almost laughable. Everything seems tailored to character survival and easy mode. Any mention of anything challenging on forums seems to be met with "You are a adversarial DM and wrong". I know it needs to evolve as a game, but it dosnt have to have monsters with nerf weapons while all PCs regenerate hp per round either.

 

[Faolyn]

It also has quite a few optional rules and worldbuilding advice. Improving on those things is, IMO, the way to go. The name is an artifact, maintained for traditions sake. I'd rather keep the content (conceptually) that we have than make the DMG something it is not.

The DMG is a Guide. Actually including information to help DMs learn how to DM is exactly what it's supposed to be. Including that info won't make it not a DMG.

All the optional rules and worldbuilding advice in the universe won't actually help someone be a better DM, or any DM at all. Those things should be in the DMG, yes, but so should actual guides for DMing.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The DMG is a Guide. Actually including information to help DMs learn how to DM is exactly what it's supposed to be. Including that info won't make it not a DMG.

All the optional rules and worldbuilding advice in the universe won't actually help someone be a better DM, or any DM at all. Those things should be in the DMG, yes, but so should actual guides for DMing.

There are, as you mentioned, plenty of places where one can learn to be a better DM. WotC should be adding to those places, like they have been doing for nearly a decade for 5e in the starter sets. Adding that stuff in the DMG will take space away from what I believe to be a better use of that book. I don't want less of the stuff I like, especially when so many avenues exist to include the stuff you want elsewhere.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Perkins has said that his intention for the new version of the DMG is that it be far more new user friendly. I can only hope that means actual advice on how to GM instead of the lopsided instructions it offers currently.

 

[tetrasodium]

Perkins has said that his intention for the new version of the DMG is that it be far more new user friendly. I can only hope that means actual advice on how to GM instead of the lopsided instructions it offers currently.

I agree with @Micah Sweet. If there is room for a "how2gm" book it should be a standalone book or ribbon for ddb subscription. The 5e DMG is far too cluttered with half baked scraps from the cutting room floor that failed to be further fleshed out & included in PHB/MM/MoTP/MiC type books where appropriate.

 

[Faolyn]

There are, as you mentioned, plenty of places where one can learn to be a better DM. WotC should be adding to those places, like they have been doing for nearly a decade for 5e in the starter sets. Adding that stuff in the DMG will take space away from what I believe to be a better use of that book. I don't want less of the stuff I like, especially when so many avenues exist to include the stuff you want elsewhere.

First, who said anything about less of what you don't like? The book can be made bigger. The current DMG is only like 320 pages. The Level Up Adventurer's Guide, conversely, is twice that size and is probably as big as you want a dead tree book to get (any larger and they come with the threat of a hernia), which leaves plenty of room for actual DM advice and expanded worldbuilding advice and optional rules. And a pdf or online source like DDB can be even larger. While I enjoy actual physical books as much as the next person, well, my eyes like it when I enlarge the text on a pdf. Plus, well, pdfs are are usually cheaper than physical books, which my wallet appreciates, and can also be more easily errata'd as well.

Secondly, the point is to make sure that this knowledge actually accessible. A new DM isn't that likely to know about those sites. There are probably dozens of GM advice sites I've never heard of, and I've been gaming for decades.

Thirdly, people shouldn't have to buy the DMG and one or more starter sets just to get information that should have already been in the DMG.

 

[Micah Sweet]

First, who said anything about less of what you don't like? The book can be made bigger. The current DMG is only like 320 pages. The Level Up Adventurer's Guide, conversely, is twice that size and is probably as big as you want a dead tree book to get (any larger and they come with the threat of a hernia), which leaves plenty of room for actual DM advice and expanded worldbuilding advice and optional rules. And a pdf or online source like DDB can be even larger. While I enjoy actual physical books as much as the next person, well, my eyes like it when I enlarge the text on a pdf. Plus, well, pdfs are are usually cheaper than physical books, which my wallet appreciates, and can also be more easily errata'd as well.

Secondly, the point is to make sure that this knowledge actually accessible. A new DM isn't that likely to know about those sites. There are probably dozens of GM advice sites I've never heard of, and I've been gaming for decades.

Thirdly, people shouldn't have to buy the DMG and one or more starter sets just to get information that should have already been in the DMG.

To your first point, you know I love the Level Up Adventurer's Guide, but I really don't see WotC making a book that big. They're going to want to keep the price down in a core book, which means they're going to want to keep the costs down. I will be extremely surprised if the DMG for the new edition is even as big as the current one. Online supplemental information of the sort you're asking for would be great though.

to your second point, WotC has a great, very visible platform in DDB, and their status as the overwhelming juggernaut of the industry, and that should be enough for them to push online resources to help new DMs. That and the (again) highly visible starter sets should set new DMs well on their way.

To your third point, this is based on what you believe the DMG should be, which, as we've discussed, I don't agree with. Even so, a new DM doesn't even have to buy the DMG if they don't want. It hasn't been necessary to play the game since 1e. What it does do is provide tools to make the game more like you want it to be, and while it can and should do that job better, that is the job I want it to do.

 

[Clint_L]

Everyone jokes about not reading/needing the DM's Guide, but as soon as you propose any serious changes to it...

When a new player asks me what books they need, I always point them to a starter set - Phandelver preferably. Then I tell them a Players Handbook. Then a Monster Manual if they are going to DM. I specifically tell them to skip the DM's Guide and go next to Xanathar's/Tasha's. They can just get the magic items online or buy one of those handy magic item card sets.

The DM's Guide is not a core book. It's not even good optional rule book. It's basically an expensive list of mediocre magic items with a bunch of filler.

 

[Oofta]

...
Thirdly, people shouldn't have to buy the DMG and one or more starter sets just to get information that should have already been in the DMG.

I would recommend reversing that to anyone new. Get the free PDFs and a starter module. If you like the game and want more then get the core books.

If there is actually a DM shortage it would likely be for those people who are trying to do too much at once. Personally I don't think this is a new issue and is no more than a problem than it has ever been. No one was ever expected to own every book under the sun or allow every possible option when they first started.

Starter sets are for just what they sound like, starting to play the game. The DMG is the step after that if you want it.