D&D General The DM Shortage

Dude, there are 13 million people registered for DndBeyond alone and that's just a fraction of the player base. Over 50 million people have played the game and 5E is the most popular version of D&D ever. Detailed numbers are hard to get, but hundreds of thousands play online every month. According to @darjr's thread on sales, the PHB was number 8 in all of books on Amazon. That's 35,610 per month if that were a sustained number (it's likely not because they're on sale, but still). I have no idea where you're getting your numbers.

Do more people eat pizza for lunch than play D&D? I assume so. But, just like comparing D&D's numbers to MMOs, it's not relevant. One group of kids deciding to not play D&D is not proof or indicative of anything. Close to a decade of double digit growth is.

I'm not saying things can't be improved. I've given some of my ideas here and there. But you don't have a book be #8 on Amazon more than 8 years after it was first published if people aren't playing the game. Even if you don't.

Most importantly, you can't have a game without a DM. Whether people "choose" to DM or not doesn't really matter.

That's not 13 million active account and doesn't include duplicates.
It's essentially a meaningless number they used. It's equivalent to Warcraft claiming millions of players where the active playerbase has dwindled to around 1 million iirc (still for 18 year old game...).

The 40-50 million players number they used was lifetime players since 1974.
 

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That's not 13 million active account and doesn't include duplicates.
It's essentially a meaningless number they used. It's equivalent to Warcraft claiming millins of players where the active playerbase has dwindled.

The 40-50 million players number they used was lifetime players since 1974.

I can't tell you how many people are playing D&D this instant. We do know that 5E has now outsold every other edition* and continues to sell tens of thousand of PHBs per month, although again we don't have exact numbers. We know the game has grown double digits year after year. We know they are still popular.

The exact number doesn't really matter, but this idea that the game is failing or somehow not working for new players simply is not true.

*We think. Accounting during the TSR days leaves something to be desired. In theory they may have sold more books overall, but that's not as indicative of players as sales of the PHB.
 

I can't tell you how many people are playing D&D this instant. We do know that 5E has now outsold every other edition* and continues to sell tens of thousand of PHBs per month, although again we don't have exact numbers. We know the game has grown double digits year after year. We know they are still popular.

The exact number doesn't really matter, but this idea that the game is failing or somehow not working for new players simply is not true.

*We think. Accounting during the TSR days leaves something to be desired. In theory they may have sold more books overall, but that's not as indicative of players as sales of the PHB.

And I never claimed any of that in my post but it's not true they're selling tens of thousands a month either. They could be but we had an ex Amazon employee point out they could get that ranking in Amazon with sales in the tens of units per day. Depends on the day and time if year. Even a few hundreds per day adds up to tens of thousands per year.

So people are seeing what they want to see.
 

The demographics changed. 5th edition's DMG was not written for the new demo. Tasha's was. But TCOE isn't the DMG.
But I'm not talking about the DMG. I am talking about the two additional starter sets that have come out since the game launched -- the essentials kit in 2019 and Stormwreck this year. Surely if WotC was interested in creating new GMs that is where the effort would be focused, right?
 

I didn't have to many fatalities in 2E. Key difference was you had to be a hit more careful less plot armor than 5E.

Hell even in 1E when the DM used a wight he was telegraphing it was a baddie. Tough luck to the level 3 cavalier who derp charged it and became a level 2 cavalier.

Yes... fun times... in 3e at least you had a chance to undo negative levels before they became permanent.

My first or second bard character was drained by vampires. Then I rolled up a new character. No. I misremembered. Was not fun at all. And did not encounter vampires again for a long time.

Also a little anecdote: in Baldur's gate there was a room woth beholders. A friend who played 3e with us told me, he tried every tactic and just could not kill that damned thing.
Then I told him the secret how we always killed beholders... just declare charge attack and hope for the best... this is how he won that fight... deadly? Maybe. Random! YES.
 

Yes... fun times... in 3e at least you had a chance to undo negative levels before they became permanent.

My first or second bard character was drained by vampires. Then I rolled up a new character. No. I misremembered. Was not fun at all. And did not encounter vampires again for a long time.

Also a little anecdote: in Baldur's gate there was a room woth beholders. A friend who played 3e with us told me, he tried every tactic and just could not kill that damned thing.
Then I told him the secret how we always killed beholders... just declare charge attack and hope for the best... this is how he won that fight... deadly? Maybe. Random! YES.


I didn't use energy drain undead that often. The risk should be there but if you over use them gonna end up with salty players.

And if you're dumb enough to pick the cavalier you deserve what you get.
 

OK, first, I will say that I agree that D&D probably has too many spells, or at least too many spells that basically do the same thing. I personally prefer the simplicity of something like Savage Worlds where there's a bolt spell and you, the caster, basically decide if you're shooting firebolts, icicles, shards of holy light, swarms of angry bees, or something else--the spell works the same regardless, but the trappings are different, and you can buy power modifiers to say that the firebolt also sets someone on fire so they take damage the next round.

I would have no problem if they combined a lot of spells the way they combined Bigby's hand and either reduced the spell count considerably or replaced the spells with ones that did very different things. Like, turn all your 3rd/4th-level area-effect mass-damage spells into one spell but replace them with a spell that turned smoke or clouds into a malleable substance you could create ladders or bridges out of (there were two or three spells like this back in 2e).

I think that there is some truth in that, though it seems to be an unproveable assumption and people likely know of dragons and orcs from things other than D&D, but you could extend that argument throughout the entire gamut of the TTRPG industry and just say that people must know X or Y because of D&D. However, I'm not sure if that means that D&D must necessarily have longer spell/monster write-ups and more detailed descriptions or even a greater quantity of spells/monsters or that these other games aren't making conscientious design choices with writing their books more concisely.
I don't think that D&D monsters necessarily needs longer write-ups. I'm just saying that a lot of designers are thinking "everyone knows what an orc is" and therefore don't feel the need to spend a ton of text describing them. As an example, the Savage Worlds Adventure Edition Fantasy Companion lists kobolds as "small dragonfolk" and mentions they use traps and ambushes--all D&D things (this certainly has little to do with real-world stories about kobolds). They don't need to spend many pages describing kobold culture because the book is covertly saying "look at D&D for that info!"

If the SWADE kobold was more like the mythical one, it would very likely have a much longer description.

Likewise, you say that Black Hack has like two pages of spells. But that's because those are all D&D spells. First, look at Charm
Charm : A Nearby target obeys commands. Test WIS each turn to see if the effect lasts.
Whereas the 5e version is split into two spells (plus all the other spells that charm targets--IMO, the Black Hack spell is more like dominate person than charm person) and has a linked condition. OK, But... if I'm playing Black Hack and use this spell to order a target to kill themselves, will they? There's no answer--not even a "Test Wis if given an order that is self-harmful or goes against their moral code," which means that the game has a good chance of screeching to a halt while the DM and players argue about the result. And considering how much people talk about these things online (or in the pages of Dragon Magazine), this is something that can and will happen in a game where it's not spelled out.

The Black Hack version certainly isn't bad by any stretch of the means, but it also doesn't take into consideration the knowledge that has been accrued over nearly 50 years of playing D&D (and it doesn't have tournament play like D&D used to have), which is why the D&D version is longer and more in-depth.

Next, look at Animate Dead, which is a very long D&D spell.
Animate Dead : Create 2d4 Skeletons/Zombies with HD/level, from nearby bodies.

Now, I managed to find a scan online of the original D&D books from '74. Here's their animate dead from Vol 1: Men & Magic:
Animate Dead: The creation of animated skeletons or zombies. It in no way brings a creature back to life. For the number of dead animated simply roll one die for every level above the 8th the Magic-User is, thus a "Sorcerer" gets one die or from 1-6 animated dead. Note that the skeletons or dead bodies must be available in order to animate them. The spell lasts until dispelled or the animated dead are done away with.
Barely any longer, and most of the additional length is due to Gygaxian verbosity, using 15 words to say what Black Hack says with "from nearby bodies." The man really needed a course on conciseness in writing.

And then you compare it to that spell in further editions of D&D and it gets progressively longer.

But why does it get progressively longer? For most of it, it's because over time, the players and designers realized that it could be super-powerful because a relatively low-level player character could get their hands on a permanent, malicious army of undead (nothing in either version above that says the zombies won't go out and do zombie things on their own). And that's not what they wanted for the game--at least not for 5th level PCs. So that's why the spell's description increased as time passed, first to limit how many undead you could control at a time, and now to limit the undead's actions to what you command them to do rather than implicitly allow them to wander off and do things on their own.
 

Why? What motive is there to do this? How is a DM supposed to learn that this is correct play?
Today? About twenty bazillion websites, newsletters, ezines, YouTube videos, and forums that give advice. Back then? Magazines like Dragon and Usenet.

Of course, much of the advice isn't actually all that useful, but there are ways to learn.
 


Of course, much of the advice isn't actually all that useful, but there are ways to learn.
That...would be one of the very reasons why I think we have such a shortage. When you're thrust into the unknown with a veritable soup of contradictory advice, where you cannot filter out the good from the bad without extensive experience (which usually takes years to develop), that's a problem. You have a recipe for (a) people who might want to being scared off by the "I have no idea what I'm doing" effect, and (b) people dipping their toes in, making serious and disheartening mistakes, and then deciding they'd rather do something else instead.

Much better to, y'know, actually try to build a core of teaching that people can start from. It will never be perfect for everyone, but it will (almost guaranteed) produce better results than throwing prospective DMs to the wolves and presuming they'll stick to it long enough to figure it out.
 

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