D&D General The DM Shortage

[nevin]

I think the collective design knowledge and more importantly ability to playtest were a lot different decades ago. For example, I don't think 3E would have had a 3.5E a couple years later if they had the teams and public assistance that designers have now. Also, there is the ability to post errata and get that out that was very difficult to do in the offline era.

I disagree. 3.0 was the last hurrah of the let the DM do whatever he wants it's his game in dnd Game design. The designers even stated that not everything they printed was expected to be used in all games and if a DM didn't like something they should tell thier players no. Everything from there on in pathfinder and DND was adding more and more rails and bumper guards to make sure everyone had the same relative power level. then 5e came in and jumped back to that mentality but used bounded accuracy. worked well but has created new problems.

 

[Oofta]

I disagree. 3.0 was the last hurrah of the let the DM do whatever he wants it's his game in dnd Game design. The designers even stated that not everything they printed was expected to be used in all games and if a DM didn't like something they should tell thier players no. Everything from there on in pathfinder and DND was adding more and more rails and bumper guards to make sure everyone had the same relative power level. then 5e came in and jumped back to that mentality but used bounded accuracy. worked well but has created new problems.

From the 5E DMG "The D&D rules help you and the other players have a good time, but the rules aren’t in charge. You’re the DM, and you are in charge of the game." They emphasize rulings over rules all the time.

 

[Desdichado]

I think the collective design knowledge and more importantly ability to playtest were a lot different decades ago. For example, I don't think 3E would have had a 3.5E a couple years later if they had the teams and public assistance that designers have now. Also, there is the ability to post errata and get that out that was very difficult to do in the offline era.

Well, that's a bit different. We now know from multiple insider reports that 3.5 was a corporate mandate from Hasbro after the acquisition to pump sales and that nobody on the design team thought it was the right thing to do from a design standpoint. At best, they thought that if they were going to be forced to do a revision, they ought to at least try and make some improvements.

 

[payn]

I disagree. 3.0 was the last hurrah of the let the DM do whatever he wants it's his game in dnd Game design. The designers even stated that not everything they printed was expected to be used in all games and if a DM didn't like something they should tell thier players no. Everything from there on in pathfinder and DND was adding more and more rails and bumper guards to make sure everyone had the same relative power level. then 5e came in and jumped back to that mentality but used bounded accuracy. worked well but has created new problems.

We have very different experiences about the 3E era. I remember it being rules over rulings to provide a consistent experience table to table (likely in favor of organized play). The supplements, were of course said to be optional, but they were put out to make sure everything had a rule and/or system for the table.

 

[payn]

Well, that's a bit different. We now know from multiple insider reports that 3.5 was a corporate mandate from Hasbro after the acquisition to pump sales and that nobody on the design team thought it was the right thing to do from a design standpoint. At best, they thought that if they were going to be forced to do a revision, they ought to at least try and make some improvements.

We do?

 

[Oofta]

Well, that's a bit different. We now know from multiple insider reports that 3.5 was a corporate mandate from Hasbro after the acquisition to pump sales and that nobody on the design team thought it was the right thing to do from a design standpoint. At best, they thought that if they were going to be forced to do a revision, they ought to at least try and make some improvements.

Do you have a reliable source for that?

In any case, they seem to have learned lessons from previous mistakes. It will be a decade before the first major revision to 5E and they haven't made the book-a-month mistake they made at the start of 4E.

 

[billd91]

We have very different experiences about the 3E era. I remember it being rules over rulings to provide a consistent experience table to table (likely in favor of organized play). The supplements, were of course said to be optional, but they were put out to make sure everything had a rule and/or system for the table.

Not just in favor of organized play, but so that players had a reasonable expectation of the consequences of their choices. If they know, from the description of a skill, that they have to hit a DC 20 with their +7 modifier, they know what their chances are and can make a relatively well-informed choice.

 

[Mort]

Sure, but you don't always get to choose your players, especially if they're your friends.

The people at the table have to agree as to what kind of game is being played. Failure to do that means NO ONE will be having fun.

And just because they are friends, doesn't mean they are compatible with your type of game!

 

[tetrasodium]

That seems related to my earlier comments about generational pop cultural zeitgeists. Maybe it shouldn't be surprising that PCs are like this in the same age that we have superhero movies dominating the box office. 5e is like the fantasy Avengers.

I prefer games that are something more like the fantasy Daredevil Netflix show or the fantasy X-files. But I'm not sure that that's entirely generational. I've always struggled with getting D&D to do what I wanted it to, even way back in the mid-80s.

I don't think so, there are mechanical reasons for it & mechanical problems thrown on the GM to handle when it happens. If wotc wants 5e to be a superhero game it needs to write rules that accomplish that. Adventurer as a social class wasn't to stop players from playing PCs who were also a commoner grade side hustle like blacksmith or tavernkeep... That was to stop them from starting out as established heroes nobility & so forthwith actual power over commonfolk & similar status to the top ranks of society due to the peasant mind control effect. Not only did 5e ignore that it took things a step further & gave players some that literally cast [evil, mind affecting] ninth level spells on the entire world during character creation.

 

[overgeeked]

From the 5E DMG "The D&D rules help you and the other players have a good time, but the rules aren’t in charge. You’re the DM, and you are in charge of the game." They emphasize rulings over rules all the time.

Except for in the books the players are supposed to read.