Henadic Theologian
Hero
Just a thought; is there any mechanism (or implication) for PCs to become the Darklord of a Domain either by replacing an existing Darklord by getting the attention of the Dark Powers?
Yes, especially in Valachan.
Just a thought; is there any mechanism (or implication) for PCs to become the Darklord of a Domain either by replacing an existing Darklord by getting the attention of the Dark Powers?
Interesting. the 2e Ravenloft books said that if a Dark Lord dies, the next most evil person in the domain gets the job.
And they did in the 2e version as well, but if you read further into the domain lore, even though you the DM knew who was lord, the domain inhabitants sometimes didn't know who or even that there was a lord.
Just a thought; is there any mechanism (or implication) for PCs to become the Darklord of a Domain either by replacing an existing Darklord by getting the attention of the Dark Powers?
So that begs the question. What happened to Azalin?So Dark Lords now appear to be immortal (sort of).
Darklords Are Immortal. Darklords are casually immortal, many having no concept of how long they've lived, how many times they've died, or why they returned to life. Should a Darklord fall, the temporary defeat lasts until they're restored by the Dark Powers. In their absence, those who sought to escape or supplant them seize their chance.
Now, it does appear true that the inhabitants of the Domain are not always aware who the Dark Lord is (or even that there is one). For example, Harkon Lukas doesn't actually have much power in his Domain, and is constantly being forgotten by inhabitants.
Harkon is obsessed with spreading his fame and travels Kartakass endlessly. Whenever he returns to a community, though, he finds he has been forgotten. Semi-polite variations of "I thought you'd retired" ever torment him.
It’s an interesting point.
I certainly don’t intend Darklords to be the BBEG (Big Bad End Guy) of an adventure in each domain. Not in most cases anyway. It should be fairly obvious that the danger of Ivan Boritsi is not his attack and hp. It’s what he put in your dinner two nights ago. Lol
So that begs the question. What happened to Azalin?
Just a thought; is there any mechanism (or implication) for PCs to become the Darklord of a Domain either by replacing an existing Darklord by getting the attention of the Dark Powers?
I wonder if that Firan Zal'honan fellow in the "Travellers in the Mists" section might have some ideas on the subject.So that begs the question. What happened to Azalin?
Likewise, you're free to pointlessly handicap entire domains because you inexplicably think the Dark Lord must have the biggest CR in their Domain. I'm just saying your assumption doesn't make a lick of sense.So... I'm not sure I should bother arguing with you, because I don't disagree with your inherent premise. You can make each Domain as difficult as you like by populating it with foes as difficult or as easy as you choose. There is quite a lot of freedom in how you run these Domains in your games.
Most important, yes. But not necessarily the most powerful by CR. There are more forms of power than are reflected in hit points, DPR, and CR. Political power, control of resources, contacts, alliances, etc. How does immortality affect a creature's CR? Or the ability to block or allow passage through the Mists surrounding the Dark Lord's Domain? And as you quoted, the Dark Lords are immortal. How does that affect their CR?HOWEVER, there is an assumption in the book that the Dark Lords are the most important NPCs in each Domain.
Shouldn’t Lamordia also account for Adam (CR 5) and Aubreker (CR ??)
Likewise, you're free to pointlessly handicap entire domains because you inexplicably think the Dark Lord must have the biggest CR in their Domain. I'm just saying your assumption doesn't make a lick of sense.
Most important, yes. But not necessarily the most powerful by CR. There are more forms of power than are reflected in hit points, DPR, and CR. Political power, control of resources, contacts, alliances, etc. How does immortality affect a creature's CR? Or the ability to block or allow passage through the Mists surrounding the Dark Lord's Domain? And as you quoted, the Dark Lords are immortal. How does that affect their CR?
I’m objecting to the notion that a Dark Lord's CR is reflective of how difficult the Domain is as a whole. The Dark Lord’s CR is not the difficulty of the Domain. It’s not a suggested level limit. This is literally never once suggested in the book. That's an assumption you are making. I'm just pointing out that it's your assumption and questioning why you'd make it.
And the book agrees with me: "Darklords range from monstrous tyrants to depraved individuals who otherwise appear as ordinary people. A Darklord’s position and powers stem from their deeds, not their game statistics. While some Darklords are deadly or possess foul gifts from the Dark Powers, many pose little threat in battle. Their menace is the result of capabilities beyond physical prowess."
The CR of a given Dark Lord is not an indicator of the "difficulty" of their Domain, nor is it a "level limit" for the creatures contained within.
But you are. And that's what I'm objecting to. Your OP presented the Dark Lords and their CR as the basis for the difficulty of the Domains. You're literally saying the CR of the Dark Lord is an indicator of how difficult the Domain is. You even replace the Dark Lord of their Domain with a different character who happens to have a higher CR.Hey man, I don't disagree. I don't really understand your antagonization here, because I'm not saying anyone should play a certain way.
I disagree with that kind of reductive representation. As does the book itself as shown in the quote I used.This can provide a basic guideline for which Dark Lords a low-level party could reasonably tackle, and which ones they'd be hard-pressed to defeat.
Note: I assume the Great Brain (Bluetspur) is like an Elder Brain even though the book does not suggest this. Also, I know Alcio Metus isn't actually Darkon's Dark Lord, but she's the strongest warlord there...
Now, obviously one can do various tweaks and other tricks to make Dark Lords stronger or weaker (have Viktra Mordenheim pilot an Iron Golem mechsuit!) but the CRs are a decent guideline for what levels they expect PCs to tackle each domain. Consider how Curse of Strahd ends at around level 10, and Strahd himself is CR 15; the only domains really optimized for a challenge beyond level 10 are (maybe) Har'Akir and Kalakeri. Most domains are for lever levels, in fact much lower, although Hazlan, Darkon, and Kartakass are still fairly challenging Domains.
Running a full campaign from level 1 to 20 would be very difficult without boosting Dark Lord's stats, or using Domains not given center-stage in this book. That said, there is plenty of material to run a campaign to at least level 12.
Only if you assume that the PCs are only there to physically fight and defeat the Dark Lord in single combat...and also exclude literally everything else about the Domain...like any monsters, creatures, guards, friends, allies, supporters, etc. Those are incredibly bad assumptions to make.And of course CR matters. It's not the only or most important thing, but it is a fair assumption that PCs are going to be in more trouble in a Domain like Kalakeri, where there is conflict between a Death Knight, Rakshasa, and Arcanaloth, than in a politics-driven realm like Borca where the rulers are low-level humans. I can state it would be a lot easier to run a high-level campaign in Kalakeri than in Borca with those assumptions already set for me. So yes, there is an indicator there, though there are no level limits of any kind.
Yeah Azalin Rex, I'm gonna assume, somehow cheated the system ala Soth and now the Dark Powers are like "Oh BLOODY SMEG NOT AGAIN!!"Interesting. the 2e Ravenloft books said that if a Dark Lord dies, the next most evil person in the domain gets the job.
But you are. And that's what I'm objecting to. Your OP presented the Dark Lords and their CR as the basis for the difficulty of the Domains. You're literally saying the CR of the Dark Lord is an indicator of how difficult the Domain is. You even replace the Dark Lord of their Domain with a different character who happens to have a higher CR.
I disagree with that kind of reductive representation. As does the book itself as shown in the quote I used.
Only if you assume that the PCs are only there to physically fight and defeat the Dark Lord in single combat...and also exclude literally everything else about the Domain...like any monsters, creatures, guards, friends, allies, supporters, etc. Those are incredibly bad assumptions to make.