D&D 5E (2014) The Fighter Extra Feat Fallacy

[The Crimson Binome]

Superhuman? More like the peak of human physical ability.

He's pushing the peak of human abilities by a considerable margin, but he's still acting within the bounds of what some people might believe a nonmagical human could do. The Marvel-verse has alternate physics in that it allows for regular humans to do things that people in the real world can't do. The Kingpin is another example of a mundane human whose physique would be impossible in our real world.

Their alternative physics (at least as long as you don't get into superpowers at all) is still close enough to our real world physics that the reader is willing to buy into it. If we see Captain America perform a twenty-foot standing long jump or lift a thousand pounds over his head, then most readers are just going to think that's really impressive rather than immediately jumping to the conclusion that it should be impossible. To contrast, if we see him perform a twenty-foot standing high jump, or lift five thousand pounds over his head, then everyone immediately knows that there's something wrong with this story because those feats blow our suspension of disbelief out of the water.

I think there are places where they refer to those heightened-but-believable constraints as "cinematic reality", and that's where most people want their fighters to live (as opposed to "mythic reality", where a sufficiently powerful fighter can balance on clouds and juggle elephants).

 

[Azzy]

Yes, that's how it's described in a (wait for it)...comic book. In the fantasy world of comic book heroes, Captain America is at the peak of human physical ability. As are Daredevil and Batman. In the real world, the stuff they do would be superhuman.

As compared to a fantasy game...

 

[Azzy]

He's pushing the peak of human abilities by a considerable margin, but he's still acting within the bounds of what some people might believe a nonmagical human could do. The Marvel-verse has alternate physics in that it allows for regular humans to do things that people in the real world can't do. The Kingpin is another example of a mundane human whose physique would be impossible in our real world.

Their alternative physics (at least as long as you don't get into superpowers at all) is still close enough to our real world physics that the reader is willing to buy into it. If we see Captain America perform a twenty-foot standing long jump or lift a thousand pounds over his head, then most readers are just going to think that's really impressive rather than immediately jumping to the conclusion that it should be impossible. To contrast, if we see him perform a twenty-foot standing high jump, or lift five thousand pounds over his head, then everyone immediately knows that there's something wrong with this story because those feats blow our suspension of disbelief out of the water.

I think there are places where they refer to those heightened-but-believable constraints as "cinematic reality", and that's where most people want their fighters to live (as opposed to "mythic reality", where a sufficiently powerful fighter can balance on clouds and juggle elephants).

If you follow the context in which I posted my response, you'd see you just reinforced my point about Captain America not being beyond the pale of what a non-supernatural fight should be able to achieve even by those that don't want superhuman feats.

 

[Azzy]

Why on earth would you reward creativity? Freezing my poop and then making an ice sculpture out of it would be creative, but I wouldn't be expecting a reward for it. Nah, in my group we stick with rewarding good play, i.e. play that furthers the chances of the PCs winning. And just to be clear, yes, I said WIN. Don't suck or you will die - no reward for creativity at my table.



Nah, you can still come play, but we will laugh at you, be condescending, and in general make it very clear how bad you suck. And even if your play improves, we will never let you forget about that time you decided to play a sickly old wizard lol.....

Man, that's some epic tier toxicity.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

If you follow the context in which I posted my response, you'd see you just reinforced my point about Captain America not being beyond the pale of what a non-supernatural fight should be able to achieve even by those that don't want superhuman feats.

Yeah, I thought I might be agreeing with you, but it's a really long thread and it's hard to tell for certain.

If anyone says that want their fighter to make a twenty-foot standing high jump, without actually casting a spell in order to do so, then that's simply not the reality which the D&D rules are trying to describe.

 

[Imaro]

Superhuman? More like the peak of human physical ability.

Isn't this basically how Conan is described as well?

 

[Guest 6801328]

As compared to a fantasy game...

That's exactly my point.

 

[Mistwell]

Why on earth would you reward creativity? Freezing my poop and then making an ice sculpture out of it would be creative, but I wouldn't be expecting a reward for it. Nah, in my group we stick with rewarding good play, i.e. play that furthers the chances of the PCs winning. And just to be clear, yes, I said WIN. Don't suck or you will die - no reward for creativity at my table.



Nah, you can still come play, but we will laugh at you, be condescending, and in general make it very clear how bad you suck. And even if your play improves, we will never let you forget about that time you decided to play a sickly old wizard lol.....

This might be the first time in 17 years that I've thought someone genuinely doesn't grok D&D and maybe shouldn't be playing it. People say there is no such thing as badwrongfun, but laughing and being condescending to people more creative than you because they are more creative than you and don't view D&D as a game you win is in fact badwrongfun.

 

[smbakeresq]

Why on earth would you reward creativity? Freezing my poop and then making an ice sculpture out of it would be creative, but I wouldn't be expecting a reward for it. Nah, in my group we stick with rewarding good play, i.e. play that furthers the chances of the PCs winning. And just to be clear, yes, I said WIN. Don't suck or you will die - no reward for creativity at my table.



Nah, you can still come play, but we will laugh at you, be condescending, and in general make it very clear how bad you suck. And even if your play improves, we will never let you forget about that time you decided to play a sickly old wizard lol.....

And there is people like this that wonder why they cant find groups to play in.

 

[smbakeresq]

He's pushing the peak of human abilities by a considerable margin, but he's still acting within the bounds of what some people might believe a nonmagical human could do. The Marvel-verse has alternate physics in that it allows for regular humans to do things that people in the real world can't do. The Kingpin is another example of a mundane human whose physique would be impossible in our real world.

Their alternative physics (at least as long as you don't get into superpowers at all) is still close enough to our real world physics that the reader is willing to buy into it. If we see Captain America perform a twenty-foot standing long jump or lift a thousand pounds over his head, then most readers are just going to think that's really impressive rather than immediately jumping to the conclusion that it should be impossible. To contrast, if we see him perform a twenty-foot standing high jump, or lift five thousand pounds over his head, then everyone immediately knows that there's something wrong with this story because those feats blow our suspension of disbelief out of the water.

I think there are places where they refer to those heightened-but-believable constraints as "cinematic reality", and that's where most people want their fighters to live (as opposed to "mythic reality", where a sufficiently powerful fighter can balance on clouds and juggle elephants).

Or in the context of the fighter maybe the powers are gained through training and experience as opposed to peak physical ability. Look at elite soldiers today, they are not Worlds Strongest Man competitors but are highly effective through training and experience. Fighters getting larger bonuses and more effective powers can reflect that.