D&D 5E The Fighter/Martial Problem (In Depth Ponderings)

[Vaalingrade]

The fact that the refrain is 'they like it just fine' is doing a lot of heavy lifting and is always decidedly not 'better than they're like it with X changes'.

People like a lot of things 'just fine'. A box of Kraft Mac and Cheese is Just Fine. Doesn't mean you can't improve on it or that people would still prefer it to an alternative.

 

[FrogReaver]

This is starting to get into conspiracy theory territory. There is no some ignored majority who is unsatisfied with the game, and they certainly are not held hostage by the grognards. The truth is that most people like the game just fine, they just want different things than you. (They also want different things than me.)

I actually think their survey design keeps anything but hardcore d&d fans input out due to the length and detail it strives for.

But I can’t prove if there’s a variance between the voices left out and the voices responding, let alone which way it skews.

For example, I think I filled out 1 survey and won’t do another.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

What kind of data will you not reject?

Define ‘like fighters’.


Define ineffectual.


Doesn’t seem like a helpful attitude.


Yes.

How do?

I think once this topic moved to a statement of fact it is reasonable to ask for some data that supports the claim.

In terms of helpfulness, I can offer observations and opinions. But I also would say if I don’t play say rangers, it is a bit absurd for me to comment at great length about them.

Conversely I have played and DM’d for fighters. If someone is saying something that is contrary to what I observe as a statement of fact I will listen to what is said and wait for some proof if I am interested.

I am not making many statements about the highest tier because I rarely play to that point…yet.

I genuinely was asking for some data about fighters being unpopular…I had not heard that. Now that I asked, it appears the discussion is more about playstyle and editions. In those cases I can only say I know what appeals to me and what does not.

At that juncture I am not trying to help per se and am acknowledging the limits of my experience. What I am not doing is using the royal “we” and stating my opinion as a largely held truth. Because it’s just my opinion…and so far, no one is able to prove even the unpopularity part, much less the other stuff.

I was genuinely trying to see what I missed but really came away with some
People really prefer vanilla or chocolate. All good.if that is what it is, it’s fine.

 

[Minigiant]

That doesn’t make any sense.

If the target audience isn’t satisfied then the grognards still don’t get what they want.

Anything that didn't make 80% satisfaction had a low chance of continuing during the 2013 playtest.

And many people who didn't end up playing 5e were involved in the surveys.

 

[Micah Sweet]

They overrepresented grognards. They required a very high satisfaction score for anything to be accepted and this allows a minority to dictate acceptance.

A minority of the audience held the target audience hostage.

Was it a minority at the time though? I'm not so sure.

 

[Minigiant]

genuinely was asking for some data about fighters being unpopular…I had not heard that. Now that I asked, it appears the discussion is more about playstyle and editions. In those cases I can only say I know what appeals to me and what does not

I don't think anyone said the fighter class was unpopular.

I believe what was said is some fighter subclasses were either unpopular or not liked. Facts collaborated by WOTC.

The argument is of why them.

 

[Micah Sweet]

This is starting to get into conspiracy theory territory. There is no some ignored majority who is unsatisfied with the game, and they certainly are not held hostage by the grognards. The truth is that most people like the game just fine, they just want different things than you. (They also want different things than me.)

I feel I must say that I agree with every individual aspect of this post.

 

[Minigiant]

Was it a minority at the time though? I'm not so sure.

Minority meaning under 50%? Definitely.

Minority meaning less thann 25%? Possibly likely.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Anything that didn't make 80% satisfaction had a low chance of continuing during the 2013 playtest.

And many people who didn't end up playing 5e were involved in the surveys.

Not sure you can blame WotC for that. And you know I would if I could

 

[Micah Sweet]

Minority meaning under 50%? Definitely.

Minority meaning less thann 25%? Possibly likely.

How do you know that though?