Spelljammer The Forgotten Realms eats Spelljammer before it even finishes digesting Radiant Citadel!

[QuentinGeorge]

It's more of a "why are FR Gods even mentioned in other game worlds?", I would think. Why do we have FR elements creeping into other settings?

I mean, if, say, Krynn, which has it's own pantheon, and outsider deities are just that, wouldn't it be weird if a Dragonlance book started talking about Tyr, Torm, or Pelor?

Oh you haven’t read that Fizban dragon book then.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The Realms is the default 5e setting. Adventurer's League uses the default 5e setting. So of course if they want to bring other elements into the AL, they're going to start from the Realms.

The multiverse is the setting of 5e. Full stop.

FR is the most popular area of that setting, and so they make sure to explain how one uses any given part of the multiverse with FR, but 5e is entirely and fully set in the multiverse.

If we are to insist on using previous edition lingo for it, Planescape, expanded to include Spelljammer and MtG, is the default setting.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Thats the problem. The gods interfere in "various D&D settings" − even where they clearly dont belong.

They have not interfered in settings they don't belong in though (Unless a DM wants them to)

 

[Yaarel]

They have not interfered in settings they don't belong in though (Unless a DM wants them to)

An important part of the Eberron setting − used to be − religion is subjective, and each of the different cultures were in their own way right. No culture could prove their beliefs objectively. But each culture could perform miracles by their sacred traditions.

Eberron was doing something important. Something beautiful.



But then came along the gods of the Forgotten Realms and shat all over that.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

An important part of the Eberron setting − used to be − religion is subjective, and each of the different cultures were in their own way right. No culture could prove their beliefs objectively. But each culture could perform miracles by their sacred traditions.

Eberron was doing something important. Something beautiful.



But then came along the gods of the Forgotten Realms and shat all over that.

But they didn't, unless a DM wants to, a god from outside Eberron can't affect it or be involved with it. And once again it was not the gods of FR that were mentioned.

 

[Yaarel]

But they didn't, unless a DM wants to, a god from outside Eberron can't affect it or be involved with it. And once again it was not the gods of FR that were mentioned.

Eberron religion is SUBJECTIVE.

But now the existence of the Forgotten Realms gods is OBJECTIVE.

That is the problem itself.

Forgotten Realms turned Eberron into FR crap.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

Eberron religion is SUBJECTIVE.

But now the existence of the Forgotten Realms gods is OBJECTIVE.

That is the problem itself.

Forgotten Realms turned Eberron into FR crap.

Forgotten Realms exists so Eberron is worse because of it? That makes little sense as an argument.

Also once again not Forgotten Realms gods.

 

[Yaarel]

Forgotten Realms exists so Eberron is worse because of it? That makes little sense as an argument.

Forgotten Realms its own setting concept. Whether I pour Eberron into it, or Star Wars, or Matrix, or Chthulu, or My Little Pony into it, it wont really disturb the premise of the Forgotten Realms setting.

Indeed, during the origins of the setting, Greenwood called it "Forgotten" because it was reallife Earth that is actually part of the setting that forgot about it.

That is the kind of setting that Forgotten Realms is.

But other settings arent like Forgotten Realms.

You cant pour Forgotten Realms into other settings. Because it destroys the premise of those other settings.

Also once again not Forgotten Realms gods.́

5e Forgotten Realms is nonidentical to earlier editions. The gods in 5e Forgotten Realms are Forgotten Realms gods.

They dont belong in other settings.

 

[Demetrios1453]

It's more of a "why are FR Gods even mentioned in other game worlds?", I would think. Why do we have FR elements creeping into other settings?

I mean, if, say, Krynn, which has it's own pantheon, and outsider deities are just that, wouldn't it be weird if a Dragonlance book started talking about Tyr, Torm, or Pelor?

As @MonsterEnvy said, the gods mentioned were Gruumsh, Corellon, and Lolth, who were originally Greyhawk deities. Then they were just generic, default deities, which is where FR picked them up (as the non-human gods were supposed to be the default among all worlds that didn't state otherwise).

 

[James Gasik]

Oh you haven’t read that Fizban dragon book then.

Eh, no, but I'm well aware that Fizban is rather metafictional (like when he shows up as Nabzif in the Death Gate novels).

 

[Hussar]

I honestly have zero idea what @Yaarel is talking about.

 

[D1Tremere]

I mean, this isnt exactly a great thing.

FR - The dumping ground of all things, the kitchen sink, and all things to all people.

Thats not exactly great, to me.

That's what is has always been. Various themes and settings plugged in to the original FR setting by TSR.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Eberron religion is SUBJECTIVE.

But now the existence of the Forgotten Realms gods is OBJECTIVE.

That is the problem itself.

Forgotten Realms turned Eberron into FR crap.

Not really true. The Traveller and the Shadow are interlopers, and objectively real. If a god from FR where to somehow reach Eberron, they would just be a traveller from another dimension. They wouldn't automatically be worshiped, and if they were, they wouldn't gain power from that worship as they would in FR. They would be real, but they wouldn't be a god.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

Eh, no, but I'm well aware that Fizban is rather metafictional (like when he shows up as Nabzif in the Death Gate novels).

No that’s not what I’m talking about.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

FR is more popular not only thanks the videogames as Baldurs' Gate and Newerwinter Nights but also because the author has been working with the publisher for a longer time.

And we don't know the potential conflicts with clerics visiting wildspaces/crystal spheres with different pantheons.

 

[Parmandur]

Eh, no, but I'm well aware that Fizban is rather metafictional (like when he shows up as Nabzif in the Death Gate novels).

Fizban's Treasury if Dragons provides a metaphysical framework to explain how D&D IP cab exist in multiple universes TL;DR it-s Plato by way of Tiamat and Bahamut, aka Tahakis and Palladibe in some worlds.

 

[Blue]

Diversity doesn't make everything a Grey mass of a blob.

True - if they kept what made them special. But FR files off all the serial numbers and doesn't provide nearly as interesting connections to the world, making it much less vibrant.

Not all races go in FR, Warforged don't.

Here's the Warforged entry from ForgottenRealms wiki.

Warforged

Warforged were a rare race of humanoid constructs created through powerful rituals. Warforged averaged 6′‒6′6″ (1.8‒2 m) and were made up of bulky (albeit resilient) metallic or stone bodies that weighed roughly 270‒300 lb (120‒140 kg). Extremely powerful and durable, warforged were able...

forgottenrealms.fandom.com

And a great example of what I was talking about above.

In FR, Warforged are rare race of humanoid constructs.

In Eberron, Warforged were created by House Cannith and sold to all of the nations as living weapons in the Last War. They weren't even seen as slaves, but as possessions. The Last War ended with the Treaty of Thronehold which recognized the Warforged as people - but also ordered the closing of all the creation forges so it is a slow genocide. People in Eberron who see Warforged can be reminded of the horrors of the Last War, can treat them as object or rejoin in their new liberty. Warforged can accept this, or look to rebels like the Lord of Blades who is attempting to restart creation forges in The Mournland.

See the difference?

The real world is a "Kitchen Sink" and that is makes it special, instead of one note and unevolving.

No, the real world is like I described Eberron - each race has it's own place and multiple cultures. There are different cultures of elves, different cultures of halflings - each that has a place in the world.

If the real world was a kitchen sink, we'd have dozens of alien races and all sorts of things from outside a single world.

 

[James Gasik]

Fizban's Treasury if Dragons provides a metaphysical framework to explain how D&D IP cab exist in multiple universes TL;DR it-s Plato by way of Tiamat and Bahamut, aka Tahakis and Palladibe in some worlds.

Oh that, yeah, that's not new lore. Even in the Forgotten Realms, Tiamat is kind of an interloper deity herself. The thing is though, Forgotten Realms is written with interloper deities from all over the place being a part of the setting- Selune, Shar, and their "daughter" Mystra are the original deities, the rest mostly migrated from elsewhere, which is why you have Finnish deities, Norse deities, Egyptian gods, and all the rest fighting for elbow room.

Krynn is supposedly a closed system, as intended by it's creator pantheon, and it used to be that a Cleric of Pelor would be a powerless heretic there. Though I admit, cracks started forming when Spelljammer declared Krynnspace as part of a greater shared universe...

 

[Synthil]

I don't like the canonical crossover aspect of D&D worlds and rather have they all remain apart from each other. I'm excited for Spelljammer. But that's because of its space adventures, not because I intend to link up other settings. I like Star Wars, I like Stargate and I like Mass Effect. But I'd hate a crossover. It cheapens every setting and muddles every theme while breaking my verisimilitude by reminding me that their all fictional worlds. The point about Eberrons religions is that it cannot be known. But now it is possible to know there are gods. They might not be gods in Eberron, but gods that exist nonetheless.

If others are having fun doing crossovers, that's great! But why would you need to put that into the settings canonically? That's like having a Star Wars setting guide describe how Spiderman would make a great superhero on Coruscant. I mean, it's true. But also irrelevant and kinda misplaced to include there.

Thankfully it's easy to ignore. In my Eberron the Forgotten Realms are as real as the Harry Potter universe. Or as real as the Realms are in the Harry Potter universe, for that matter.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

I don't like the canonical crossover aspect of D&D worlds and rather have they all remain apart from each other. I'm excited for Spelljammer. But that's because of its space adventures, not because I intend to link up other settings. I like Star Wars, I like Stargate and I like Mass Effect. But I'd hate a crossover. It cheapens every setting and muddles every theme while breaking my verisimilitude by reminding me that their all fictional worlds. The point about Eberrons religions is that it cannot be known. But now it is possible to know there are gods. They might not be gods in Eberron, but gods that exist nonetheless.

If others are having fun doing crossovers, that's great! But why would you need to put that into the settings canonically? That's like having a Star Wars setting guide describe how Spiderman would make a great superhero on Coruscant. I mean, it's true. But also irrelevant and kinda misplaced to include there.

cause they have been crossing over from the start, it’s not a new thing. I also don’t feel it cheapens things.