D&D 5E The Gloves Are Off?

[Ruin Explorer]

There's no need for me to waste my time coming up with a list for every possible piece of gear that I can think of and pricing it. Especially since prices and availability vary depending on location, the merchant, etc.

So you're using the terrible equipment list, and gotcha'ing players who don't think to go off-list? I mean, that's what it sounds like.

 

[Reynard]

Well, if we hold that basic issues of how they're dressed are an area of a player's agency over their character, there's the example of a PC saying "but my character was wearing gloves when they touched the chest, so the contact poison shouldn't affect them!" and the DM says "your character sheet doesn't say you're wearing gloves, and the description for your outfit doesn't say it comes with gloves, so no, you weren't wearing gloves and the poison affects you."

Presumably, in a campaign where things like gloves matter, the agency part should be writing on your character sheet "gloves(worn)".

 

[Celebrim]

Or, the DM screwed up. The DM made an assumption about the character and got it wrong. The DM thought the character wasn't wearing gloves. The DM never asked the player if the character was wearing gloves. The DM ASS-U-MEd and got it wrong.

This possibility is something I have assumed from the start. But, again, if the DM then inspects the players character sheet and there is no concrete evidence of gloves to be found anywhere, then the DM's assumption is not wrong. There no evidence to overturn the DMs assumption in that case, and therefore the ruling - whether artfully or in artfully made - stands.

It seems like if I had to play with a few of you as DM I would have to write a 400 page diatribe on what my character wears and does under each and every situation

It's not hard to list on your equipment the sort of things you wear and employ, nor an unreasonable expectation that if you employ a tool that you'll mention it. If a player had said, "I open the door", it's not unreasonable to imagine that they do that with their hand (gloved or not) and that they do that in the normal way. Would we still be having this argument if, the player responded, "Wait a minute, when I said "I open the door", I meant I tied a 50' rope to the door handle, walked a good 40' away, and hid behind the archway before giving the rope a strong tug."? Because I have had similar sorts of retroactive claims made by players (not often, but still) when no such pattern of play had ever been established.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Can we talk about this? Why did they abandon the simple and intuitive spot/search distinction? Fix it in 1D&D!

Investigation is involved in disarming them. Here's the text:

A trap’s description specifies the checks and DCs needed to detect it, disable it, or both. A character actively looking for a trap can attempt a Wisdom (Perception) check against the trap’s DC. You can also compare the DC to detect the trap with each character’s passive Wisdom (Perception) score to determine whether anyone in the party notices the trap in passing. If the Adventurers detect a trap before triggering it, they might be able to Disarm it, either permanently or long enough to move past it. You might call for an Intelligence (Investigation) check for a character to deduce what needs to be done, followed by a Dexterity check using thieves’ tools to perform the necessary sabotage.

 

[Celebrim]

I think you're a little confused about how "evidence" and "opinions" are different things lol.

No, I'm not.

Oh I'm sorry lol you're not directly licking the trap, you're just putting your tongue and head really near it with a piece of straw. It was a terrible misunderstanding lol.

The fact that you think that is silly is proof you've never actually looked for a trap.

 

[Maxperson]

So you're using the terrible equipment list, and gotcha'ing players who don't think to go off-list? I mean, that's what it sounds like.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Presumably, in a campaign where things like gloves matter, the agency part should be writing on your character sheet "gloves(worn)".

I mean, this isn't 1991, dude.

Character sheets don't even look like that anymore.

This is a problem with this board being a bunch of older people who remember "Ye Olde Dayes". If you want to run a game like that, you should probably be running an OSR game or a retro-clone.

Also you're really leaning into the "hobo" part of murderhobo by going oldskool with the "PCs are always wearing one specific outfit all the time".

The fact that you think that is silly is proof you've never actually looked for a trap.

Sure, sure, yeah that's definitely the only reason to think that's silly and there's no possibly that the shenanigans described would crack up most D&D groups.

 

[Reynard]

If we assume everyone at the table is engaging the game in good faith (and we should) then this is a communication issue that should come up exactly once. There will be some negotiation and some attempts to get processes and expectations aligned, and then move on.. forever after this table will have a "gloves rule." Since the books can't be comprehensive, this is working as intended.

If we assume bad faith (the gotcha GM or the cheating player) then nothing can satisfactorily resolve the situation.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I mean, this isn't 1991, dude.

Character sheets don't even look like that anymore.

This is a problem with this board being a bunch of older people who remember "Ye Olde Dayes". If you want to run a game like that, you should probably be running an OSR game or a retro-clone.

Also you're really leaning into the "hobo" part of murderhobo by going oldskool with the "PCs are always wearing one specific outfit all the time".

Sure, sure, yeah that's definitely the only reason to think that's silly and there's no possibly that the shenanigans described would crack up most D&D groups.

I run my game that way, but I also use an extensive equipment list that allows for it.

 

[Reynard]

This is a problem with this board being a bunch of older people who remember "Ye Olde Dayes". If you want to run a game like that, you should probably be running an OSR game or a retro-clone.

I do not understand why you constantly get so upset that other people enjoy the game in a way you don't.