D&D 5E The Gloves Are Off?

[Hriston]

The situation as described doesn't say, only that whatever it was, the PC touched the poisoned chest. Feel free to fill in the player's intentions if you think it will help illustrate your position.

As with any situation where there's a mismatch between players about what's included in the fiction, I would pause play to get on the same page with the player by accepting their character was wearing gloves and that therefore the skin on their hands hasn't been exposed to the poison. Then, I would describe the result of the character having touched the chest without asking for a saving throw.

 

[TarionzCousin]

What if the gloves... are made of poison?!?

 

[Bill Zebub]

Are things like cloaks, parkas, boots, etc. listed separately? If no, that's an even bigger hole than not listing gloves; in that it's assumed everyone in the setting freezes in the winter.

According to the rules, player characters cannot wear underwear.

 

[corwyn77]

According to the rules, player characters cannot wear underwear.

Not even GURPS has rules for underwear.

 

[Seramus]

According to the rules, player characters cannot wear underwear.

Hilariously, sleeping doesn't make you Incapacitated/Unconscious.

 

[Maxperson]

It truly befuddles me that you honestly think you are not controlling the PC's action in the scene when you, as DM, decided that the PC has dodged behind a pillar. And so we're clear on definitions: "action" = "something the PC is choosing to do in the fiction".

Do you think the PC isn't trying to avoid the spell and making the save because of it? That's an action he is doing in the fiction and I am narrating the result.

 

[Maxperson]

Except that's not the position that was posted in the OP. Forget "needing an 11 or higher," we've already established that the entire idea of this being a poison that kills you was added well over a hundred-fifty posts in, by someone who isn't the OP. That's in no way the frame of the discussion that the rest of us are having.

That much is certainly true. That said, when you're responding to the tangent you can't really say that the tangent wasn't consistent with Russian Roulette. It is as I demonstrated. That it's not really consistent with the OP is a separate issue.

 

[Maxperson]

Yes, the player is factually incorrect here and has failed to record gloves on their character sheet. The DM is well within their role of mediating between the rules and the players to tell them so and press on with the saving throw. But in terms of table harmony in the moment, is it worth doing that?

That's completely group dependent. My group is very old school in that regard and wouldn't bat an eyelash.

 

[Maxperson]

I see .. so now you guys are using the travelling rules for every moment outside of combat rounds.

That's what the traveling rules say.

Look at the travel pace chart. It deals in feet per minute, miles per hour and miles per day. A normal pace is 300 feet a minute or 30 feet a round for the PCs that move 30, which is nearly all of them.

Do your players frequently choose the mapping or foraging stance when visiting the blacksmith?

It's not a stance. It's just what happens when you are moving. If I walk 5 feet to the other side of my office, I've traveled there. While travel is typically over long distance, travel doesn't have to be long distance and the PHB travel rules use short distances.

 

[Maxperson]

It looks like you fundamentally distrust the player here then. I would see "I have gloves on" as no different than "I cast shield" when the orc hits you. The attack would have hit, but now it doesn't. Is shield a retcon?

Yes shield is a retcon. It's just one supported by rules. This hit has already happened and shield rewinds it so that it misses. Most abilities that affect rolls have to be used prior to knowing if you succeed or not.

 

[Maxperson]

I would think there is more to support it in the sense that gloves are a perfectly common and mundane item that would be available to just about any PC.

What if we flipped the situation a bit... what if instead of contact poison, the trap was caltrops? Would anyone ask "do you have boots written on your character sheet?"

Gloves are not a part of every outfit. Boots/shoes are unless someone goes out of the way to say they are barefoot.

 

[corwyn77]

Hilariously, sleeping doesn't make you Incapacitated/Unconscious.

Also, NOT sleeping doesn't fatigue you, either. And no matter of exhaustion/fatigue will make you pass out - it just kills you.

 

[Maxperson]

Hilariously, sleeping doesn't make you Incapacitated/Unconscious.

You can wake up from sleeping. You can't do anything about incapacitated or just wake up at a small noise when knocked unconscious. I get what you're saying, but there is a difference. Is the PC not conscious when sleeping? Technically yes. That's not the type of unconscious the condition is modeling, though.

 

[Hriston]

We weren't told. All we know from the original post is:

"Unbeknownst to an unarmored character and despite the DM's sufficient telegraphing, they touched a chest."

The character's intention, or the details leading up to how and why the character touched the chest, were never mentioned. The scene begins with the character touching the chest. Apparently the DM had dropped a few hints about it, too.

Yes, I’d gathered all that from the OP to which I was replying. To me, the description of play was insufficient for me to say how I would resolve it because I didn’t have the player’s complete action declaration. I wanted to be able to say what the result of touching the chest would be since the saving throw was no longer an issue. I found a way around that though once I realized it wasn’t the point.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Do you think the PC isn't trying to avoid the spell and making the save because of it? That's an action he is doing in the fiction and I am narrating the result.

It is true that when a save is successful, something is happening in the fiction to avoid the effect being saved against. And, when a DM describes the PC as "dodging behind a pillar" to avoid the brunt of a fireball on a successful save, that DM is dictating what that something is. The DM, through narration, is literally controlling the PC's chosen action in that example. Now, at any particular table, the DM can certainly describe the PC's reaction, action, thoughts, or speech as part of a result - but it is certainly not required or even necessary as has already been shown.

 

[Reynard]

Hilariously, sleeping doesn't make you Incapacitated/Unconscious.

That tracks.

#insomnia

 

[Alzrius]

That said, when you're responding to the tangent you can't really say that the tangent wasn't consistent with Russian Roulette.

You can if your responses are "what are you talking about?" and "No, that presumption isn't part of the scenario under discussion."

 

[hawkeyefan]

Gloves are not a part of every outfit. Boots/shoes are unless someone goes out of the way to say they are barefoot.

Right, so the rules make it clear that shoes/boots are a thing and how one gets them. But not so with gloves.

This thread has changed my mind from my initial stance. I've decided to never use contact poison, so that instead of having even a moment of discussion like this at the table, we can instead just continue to play the game.

 

[FrogReaver]

Right, so the rules make it clear that shoes/boots are a thing and how one gets them. But not so with gloves.

This thread has changed my mind from my initial stance. I've decided to never use contact poison, so that instead of having even a moment of discussion like this at the table, we can instead just continue to play the game.

Take a page out of the players book and have all traps use magical effects. That way the effect just happens irrespective of what gear they are wearing.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Take a page out of the players book and have all traps use magical effects. That way the effect just happens irrespective of what gear they are wearing.

We need less Wizard issues, not more!