The Great D&D Schism: The End of an age and the scattering of gamers

[GMforPowergamers]

I can tell you in 4e to just make an unarmed attack roll to grab.... it takes 8 words... slightly more if you add unless you have a special power... so add 6 more words... 14ish...

Grapple:

1: If an AoO is provoked then settle it. (Some feats allow a grapple without drawing an AoO)

2: Make melee touch attack.

3: Maintain hold by making opposed grapple checks (Roll your BAB + Strength + any relevant feats + size mod.) vs the grappled. Do damage.

4: For later rounds.

Not that hard really.

look at the 2 quotes... tell me 4e isn't simpler

I have seen people confused with 2e initiative and THAC0 and 3e grappling, but

oh, ok then you did see them...

 

[Cadence]

wow, I am surprised. I have seen all of that and then some

Including regularly playing with guys so dense that they can't figure out if it's their turn yet even though nothing had happened in the meantime (and needing to continually ask to boot)?


Will the 5e teaser starts where this one ends, an hour into the 4e combat with most of the group either slumped over the table in exhaustion or playing WoW on their laptops, while the other two argue about choosing which exact power to use while swinging their swords because the flavor text and name for the best power makes absolutely no sense in context?

 

[Ahnehnois]

look at the 2 quotes... tell me 4e isn't simpler

For grappling? Maybe. In general? Of course not.

oh, ok then you did see them...

I did not, however, see them being narrated by some guy with a stupid fake accent.

 

[XunValdorl_of_Kilsek]

look at the 2 quotes... tell me 4e isn't simpler


oh, ok then you did see them...

It's not really about being simpler because I understand both of them perfectly. Sure it may take a few seconds to execute one over the other but that's trivial.

 

[Derren]

look at the 2 quotes... tell me 4e isn't simpler

Simple and bland.
At least 3E takes the size of the creatures into account. And I take a little less simple and flavorful over extremely simple and bland every day.

 

[Cadence]

Whoo-hoo! We got goaded into an edition skirmish!

 

[Remus Lupin]

Whoo-hoo! We got goaded into an edition skirmish!

Well to be clear, my intention wasn't to criticize anyone's preferred edition, simply to note why I didn't switch over, and to explain why I can see the contrast between the division now and the (perception of) unity in the first few years after 3.0.

My philosophy is always "play the game you like!"

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Including regularly playing with guys so dense that they can't figure out if it's their turn yet even though nothing had happened in the meantime (and needing to continually ask to boot)?

not exactly, but I have (as recently as November) seen one player try to start there turn just to have the last player say "Wait, I still have a minor," take 2-3 minutes more, do nothing that matters, then when the other player starts again say "Wait I might spend an action point..."

back in 2e (before we house ruled initiative) my now brother in law then just sister's date
used to ask after every turn...every fight...every game "Is it my turn yet?" I used to thin he thought he was funny, but when we moved to 3e and it was just roll X+Y then call out number he did fine...

Will the 5e teaser starts where this one ends, an hour into the 4e combat with most of the group either slumped over the table in exhaustion or playing WoW on their laptops, while the other two argue about choosing which exact power to use while swinging their swords because the flavor text and name for the best power makes absolutely no sense in context?

I would not be insulted if they did...

Whoo-hoo! We got goaded into an edition skirmish!

your right... I'll just end this by saying as a player of 3-8 editions of this game (depending on who does the counting) I was not then insulted nor now do I see it. Some people do take offense at it, but I do not belive it was meant to offend...

 

[Ahnehnois]

I would not be insulted if they did...

Credit where credit is due at least.

 

[Savage Wombat]

not exactly, but I have (as recently as November) seen one player try to start there turn just to have the last player say "Wait, I still have a minor," take 2-3 minutes more, do nothing that matters, then when the other player starts again say "Wait I might spend an action point..."

That was a weird 4e thing - and I'm not edition warring here - but in 3e you basically had the same system: a standard action, a move action, and if you had something a swift action - but I'd never heard people constantly complaining about people trying to min-max their swift actions as a resource.

Were there just that many minor actions to choose from in 4e? Was that the real problem? Because I've heard it said that it was a play-style thing.