D&D General The Great Railroad Thread

[kermit4karate]

I've seen it. Not for hours on end... but I don't think it takes hours for it to be disruptive or counterproductive (assuming that not everyone is happy with such play, because if they are, then they can carry on).

I've had plenty of players who want to RP every small interaction. I've played in games where GMs roleplay out long scenes or speeches by NPCs. I've watched GM's carry out conversations between multiple NPCs where the players are mostly just watching.

In each case, it doesn't take that long for my patience to reach its limit. I don't mind people indulging a bit here and there, but I'm personally not there to watch the RPG equivalent of cosplay. If there aren't stakes involved in some way, if the interaction or scene isn't establishing something meaningful, then I expect it to be brief. I'm not a total jerk about it... but I will eventually speak up, especially if I'm the GM.

I would say, "This is why we can't have nice things," but see, that isn't true. This is why I'm the only authority when I DM. To me this crystallizes why D&D has historically made the DM's word the word of god -- because if a group of my players were ignoring my polite hints, disrespecting me and my time, that's what not-so-random encounters are for.

If they won't play nicely, neither will I.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Jeez. Sounds about as much fun as dental work.

I'm thinking I've been pretty fortunate to not have to play with very many strangers in my life. I'm assuming that's part of the difference I'm hearing.

Nope. I've heard of this for groups that have been playing together for years. Its just a dynamic with some individual players or groups.

It brings up a point about the value of having friends, or at least allies, at the table. It helps to have a couple people in the game who have the DM's back and will help get the rabble rousers in line.

I'm not talking about people I'd call rabble rousers. These are just people who (usually; the spotlight hogs can be a different beast) think that's what the game's about.

I couldn't imagine trying to play with a table of complete strangers. It's almost like trying to play with people who don't like you. If they don't show up to the game with even a tiny shred of respect for the DM, that probably would not equal a good time for all.

Most people in the hobby were probably strangers at some point. I don't think starting out playing with your friends is nearly as universal as I suspect you do. A lot of people make friends by finding people to game with. I had a friend of a half century I met that way.

 

[kermit4karate]

Nope. I've heard of this for groups that have been playing together for years. Its just a dynamic with some individual players or groups.

I think this goes back to something I believe has been a recurring theme on enworld -- this debate over player agency and whether to put boundaries on DMs. I've only been coming here for a couple months so I don't have all the backstory, but I gather that this is a BIG recurring theme. That whole debate between DM authority and "narrative" (in quotes because I still don't know what it really means) play sits at the nexus of this issue to me.

Give them an inch and they'll take a mile. When players are allowed to be disruptive without suffering any consequences, then it normalizes that bad behavior. If the players lose respect for the DM and what they're trying to do for everyone at the table, then I'm not surprised so many games go off the rails.

I'm not talking about people I'd call rabble rousers. These are just people who (usually; the spotlight hogs can be a different beast) think that's what the game's about.

Once a DM has lost control of a table, or at least has lost the respect of the people around the table, a negative outcome is predictable.

Most people in the hobby were probably strangers at some point. I don't think starting out playing with your friends is nearly as universal as I suspect you do. A lot of people make friends by finding people to game with. I had a friend of a half century I met that way.

I know that's true, but I still think it's a bad recipe for good games. It's hard to be a good chef when you're cooking with bad ingredients.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I think this goes back to something I believe has been a recurring theme on enworld -- this debate over player agency and whether to put boundaries on DMs. I've only been coming here for a couple months so I don't have all the backstory, but I gather that this is a BIG recurring theme. That whole debate between DM authority and "narrative" (in quotes because I still don't know what it really means) play sits at the nexus of this issue to me.

Give them an inch and they'll take a mile. When players are allowed to be disruptive without suffering any consequences, then it normalizes that bad behavior. If the players lose respect for the DM and what they're trying to do for everyone at the table, then I'm not surprised so many games go off the rails.

Again, the problem you're missing that in some groups this isn't disruptive. Its what they do during play. Note upthread @TwoSix mentioned that's like 80% of his game play. Even the spotlight hogs are often just something that happens some of the time that other players just take as part of the gig.

A lot of this stuff isn't perceived as bad behavior.

Once a DM has lost control of a table, or at least has lost the respect of the people around the table, a negative outcome is predictable.

I'm going to mention again that at least the first part of that is not a given in any way. There are plenty of games where the GM "controlling the table" is not a priority and they still get by fine. Even if you insist on doing that at your table, you've really got to get over assuming its a law of nature.

I know that's true, but I still think it's a bad recipe for good games. It's hard to be a good chef when you're cooking with bad ingredients.

Again, leaping to conclusions that playing with strangers will automatically lead to problems. Seriously, it just doesn't follow. Frankly, I've seen as much problems from games with people playing with friends and family as I ever have with random mixes.

 

[TwoSix]

Wait are you just a Buddy GM? 'Yes player, the sewer goblin gives you a sword +1 in tribute'.

They all pay me tribute as demanded. I am as a God-Emperor DM

 

[soviet]

They all pay me tribute as demanded. I am as a God-Emperor DM

The next step is Giant Worm DM, be careful!

 

[Old Fezziwig]

"TwoSix Muad'Dib" is very chantable. And it also sounds like a dance move. Left, right, chachacha. Two, six, muad'dib. Left, right, muad'dib. Two, six, chachacha.

 

[TwoSix]

The next step is Giant Worm DM, be careful!

Eh, as long as the XP flows, it sets my plots in motion.

 

[kermit4karate]

I think this goes back to something I believe has been a recurring theme on enworld -- this debate over player agency and whether to put boundaries on DMs. I've only been coming here for a couple months so I don't have all the backstory, but I gather that this is a BIG recurring theme. That whole debate between DM authority and "narrative" (in quotes because I still don't know what it really means) play sits at the nexus of this issue to me.

Give them an inch and they'll take a mile. When players are allowed to be disruptive without suffering any consequences, then it normalizes that bad behavior. If the players lose respect for the DM and what they're trying to do for everyone at the table, then I'm not surprised so many games go off the rails.


Once a DM has lost control of a table, or at least has lost the respect of the people around the table, a negative outcome is predictable.


I know that's true, but I still think it's a bad recipe for good games. It's hard to be a good chef when you're cooking with bad ingredients.

Here's what I know from listening to you and a few others on this thread: y'all have problems sometimes with rebellious, undisciplined players who go rogue on personal RP missions to waste time.

I don't.

So for whatever reason, whatever recipe for putting teams together I'm following doesn't produce that horse manure that was being described.

If you're saying that it isn't bad and doesn't bother you, I understand. If you don't mind getting pulled into RP sessions lasting hours where you help your players shop and try on new clothes, more power to you. I however would politely bow out from games like that.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Here's what I know from listening to you and a few others on this thread: y'all have problems sometimes with rebellious, undisciplined players who go rogue on personal RP missions to waste time.

I don't.

So for whatever reason, whatever recipe for putting teams together I'm following doesn't produce that horse manure that was being described.

If you're saying that it isn't bad and doesn't bother you, I understand. If you don't mind getting pulled into RP sessions lasting hours where you help your players shop and try on new clothes, more power to you. I however would politely bow out from games like that.

uh, is this meant to be replying to your own post or did discord bug out on you?