D&D 5E (2024) The Great Wizard Extinction.

[Zardnaar]

Accuracy hasn’t changed much????
What the heck?

Numbers are the same.

Not everyone used the -5/+10 feats all the time.

 

[FrogReaver]

Numbers are the same.

Not everyone used the -5/+10 feats all the time.

There’s also way more advantage. Heroic inspiration. Vex and topple weapon masteries. Etc.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

It might be, but the Cleric in the example is getting a 25% chance to hit without any bonus against a high AC.

Great.

What Cleric spell are you going to cast with a 1st level slot that does automatic damage on a failed save? I don't know of any.

Why use a lvl 1 spell? At level 8 you have up to level 4 spells. Ome of them spirit guardians.

There are a few 1st level AOEs and spells from other classes that do this, but I don't think they are beating Bless either over 3 rounds either even with a failed save.

Depends. Burning hands is not bad of it hits a few creatures. If it takes one or two mooks down or helps another player to do that, it prevents damage against frontliners. Front loaded damage is worth more than backloaded. But again, why use a level 1 spell?

Dissonant Whispers and Burning Hands do 10.5 on a failed save, which would still be less over 3 rounds than using Bless.

Against a single foe, yes. Whem does that happen? And if dissonant whispers hits, you grant a few AOEs

What spell are you going to use for this?

A higher level spell, if the enemy is a serious threat? Otherwise, it doen't matter at all.

This argument works against any 1st level offensive spell you could use and it also assumes the Blessed characters are not getting any other damage bonuses.

As I said, in certain situations and if you want to conserve spell slots, bless is great.

Like I said that is the same for any 1st level offensive spell I can think of, Cleric or not.

Again. Why use a level 1 spell.

They will not have a negative effect because a hit is always more damage than a miss

It has a negative impact on your calculation, as misses still do damage. So the net increase of another hit is lessened.

With a failed save or a vex weapon regardless of the save, but both the first hit and the attacks with advantage are more likely with Bless.

Agreed. I still prefer topple because it helps the whole party.

If the enemy is a humanoid, yes obviously, but that is a 2nd level spell and a lot more conditional due to the creature type requirement.

Correct. I assumed a humanoid in plate armor and a shield is the most probable creature with AC22.

If you are looking at 1st level control spells I would say Tasha's Hideous Laughter is the one to compare it to and I would put it ahead of Bless even with the repeated saves with advantage on each hit, but not a Cleric spell so we are still searching for something a Cleric can cast at level 1 to outperform Bless.

If you assume a failed save: just use command. Have the command be either "flee", "approach" or "cower".
Either you can put the creature out of position, getting opportunity atracks or allow attacks with advantage for a round. In either case, the creature does nothing for a turn. (I guess we still assume punching a solo creature with high AC and nothing else).
So now, you effectively gave everyone effectively an extra round of attacks. That means 5 more attacks with an average hit chance of 25%, which means you get more than one an extra hit in and then you also get either opportunity attacks with advantage. All without risking to lose bless due to damage, all with leaving your concentration slot free.

And the question remains: if the enemy is no threat, why use any spell? If the enemy is a real threat, why don't you use a higher level spell?

I still can imagine situations where bless is very good. Probably the best choice. But it never was or never is generally the best spell for all situations.

 

[Maxperson]

Haven't they been doing that though? How much of the game really supports high level play?

Not enough.

 

[Maxperson]

They're fools of they cater to that q.5 million over the 13.5 million.

So go back over that very short post of mine and see if you can find where I said or implied that they should cater to the 10%.