The Heal/Harm revision?

[Tom Cashel]

Now I know how Gygax feels. Exiled from my own creation.

Have it your way, Foxhound, but know that you've made a powerful enemy this day. Your love of "Harm as written" shall be your undoing!

 

[ashockney]

One thing to note... I think the variant play of taking away the instant death spells from Epic Level play makes spellcasters useless. At Epic levels, a fighter will always do more damage in a round than any high-level damage spell. The only thing spellcasters have going is that they can take down the big bad in a single stroke. Don't mess with it, I say.

Actually, quite to the contrary, from my experience in high level play (two campaigns to 20th level). High level casters are the masters at clearing out a room (everything but the BBEG's). The wizards can help with the BBEG through some direct damage and buff stuff, but the fighters can cleave their way through the BBEG, and are the only ones who can take what the BBEG can dish out. If you allow spellcasters to run rampant with Save/Die and terrific AoE, the fighters may end up as over-equipped bodyguards, watching the casters take down the whole room and the BBEG in a round or two at the most.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

First of all, any DM worth his salt can keep these spells balanced.

My understanding is that PirateCat has altered the spells, and he did win an ENNie for best DM, for what it's worth.

Yep. It is bunk. It's a reaction to the utterly worn-out Harm debate. S.H.I.N.Y. is a sarcastic organization. I truly think that the damage cap is a great idea for Harm, and the saving throw is probably a good idea as well. Save or die is bad enough; die w/o save is pretty unfair. But I also think that Harm should be classified as an "evil" spell, thereby removing it from the arsenal of most PC clerics.

[/end truthfulness]

I want my Harm spell left alone! You hear me? You'll have to pry it from my cold dead fingers!!

I'm confused. Do you want it altered or not?

 

[Tom Cashel]

Look for the kernel of truth in the storm of trolls.

 

[aurellius]

Presumably Heighten Spell still works with epic-level spell slots, so you could turn that 6th level disintegrate into a 16th level one, with commensurate DC.

True, i had overlooked that one, that will bring dc's to 1/3 levels while saves are at 1/2, but again my concern is that it seems in epic play, to remain an effective caster, you have to put the majority of your feats and magics to boost your dc's. While all other characters can branch out into other abilites without harming their core ability.

Rogues still gain sneak attack.
Fighters maintain their lead in BAB.
But casters dont progress unless they put their feats into it.....thus not allowing them to branch out into metamagics and such.

and after a while of buying improved spell capactiy they will hit a wall in that their controlling stat will not be high enough to allow them to cast that 20th level spell.....


Marcus

ps not trolling, just have a poor grasp of epic balance and seeking enlightenment

 

[Dinkeldog]

Look for the kernel of truth in the storm of trolls.

Unfortunately, sometimes all that shows is the troll. Let's keep the name-calling and denigrating of others' abilities out of the discussion, please.

 

[James McMurray]

Fighters maintain their lead in BAB.

No they don't. Past 20th level, every character's attack bonus (not BAB) goes up by +1 per 2 levels. If a fighter wants to go faster he'll have to put feats into improving it (i.e. Epic Prowess, Great Strength, or Epic Weapon Focus).

 

[Hypersmurf]

No they don't.

He said 'maintain', not 'improve'.

-Hyp.

 

[Destil]

You know, this is accualy a good thing, now that I think about it. I love rules variants. Hopefully this will be in the revised DMG. Or the original version of any spell changed in 3.5 will be in the revised DMG. A nice little section/sidebar for Variant: General Magic power scaling would be great.

Will fit in perfect right before the new chapter 9: The unabridged history of Pollymorph Self.

 

[Tom Cashel]

Unfortunately, sometimes all that shows is the troll. Let's keep the name-calling and denigrating of others' abilities out of the discussion, please.

Somehow I always get blamed for these things. I'd be happy to do that, Dinkel; please note that I was not the instigator, for the record.