The HERO System

[Eosin the Red]

I am down with Dogbrains explanations except for the speedster...You just gotta be more creative

I currently run a Fantasy Hero game and have started a Story Hour based on it, I just did not label it as such. I am also behind a week on posting to it.

Anyway back on topic. I have always held that Hero worked best in Modern or Supers and even swore at one point that I would never run another FH game but then they changed the magic rules and gave me some ideas. Suddenly, the system that I loved the most could be used for the genre I love the most. I have not been disappointed.

I would 100% say that you need fantasy Hero before you try to run a fantasy game in the system. It is not a game that you "grok" until you have played it a few times. The rules become much easier after some play -- much more so than d20 for me.

There are some really good sites for Fantasy Hero on the web - nothing like ENworld but some good sites none the less. I and a few others are also regulars on the Hero boards where they have a Fantasy Hero section so feel free to drop by and discuss "how do you do this?"

If you have any questions for an active FH DM drop me a line.

 

[Eosin the Red]

Yes, I have to agree. I've yet to see Fantasy Hero magic system that was ever worth a darn. The big problem is that the point-cost of powers in HERO only reflect their value in the superhero genre. Some things are too cheap, like sensory powers (Invisibility, Darkness, Enhanced Senses) and movement powers (Flight, Teleportation). OTOH, offensive powers that do direct damage are pretty expensive for what they do; a wizard's magic missile costs END, requires Concentration at 1/2 DCV as well as a successful magic skill check, and inflicts damage on the caster if the skill check fails, yet it only does the same damage as an arrow and costs 7 character points? What a gyp!

Some small quibbles....Flight and T-Port are terribly expensive but sensory powers generally are not.

Attack powers - Still reasonibly cheap but granted the archer did not have to pay for his bow.

Cost - this is dramatically different in 5E FH. I like it because I thought without a cost break magic was out of reach. Others do not like it but it is hero, you can always use a different rule.

 

[jmucchiello]

Over and over again, HERO extols its own virtues of simplicity and clarity -- and then proceeds to delve into the most heinously complicated, poorly constructed, over-blown jargonese that I have ever seen in any roleplaying rulebook ever. I am an advocate of the Campaign for Plain English and, if I ever wanted to show how NOT to write clearly and concisely, I would uphold HERO as a shining example.

OK. Maybe the 5th Edition book is better (I have a 4th ed. copy) but I cannot see how; not if it's by the same authors.

Actually, it isn't. Hero Games was sold to DOJ Games in 1999 (I think). 5th ed was written by Steven Long and contains lots and lots of examples compared to the 4th ed book. I would also recommend to anyone thinking about HERO to pick up a book called Sidekick by Hero Games. Sidekick is a 128 page, $10 streamlined version of the rules. Some might call it dumbed down since it skips over some of the more complicated constructs but it is a completely playable RPG as long as your character builds are not too weird. And once you've mastered Sidekick, you can graduate to the HERO System rulebook in all its 370+ page glory. At which point you use your copy of Sidekick to lure people into playing HERO with you.

Another area full of inequities is the Disadvantage system. In theory, players earn character points in exchange for rounding out their characters with weaknesses. In practice, it can be hard for even someone with a solid design concept to come up with enough reasonable Disads to gain the maximum allowed points--and everyone wants the maximum. One of the odd design elements about this system is that most Disads seem to be of about equal point value, so for instance, a Psychological Limitation that mandates quirky behavior in certain roleplaying situations is worth about as much as a damage Vulnerability that can get your character killed.

And the designers are quite resolute about not making any changes to the broken areas. They're too invested in them, emotionally and intellectually, to accept what needs to be done to give HERO the degree of "powergamer-tolerance" that is needed for GM's to stop giving up on it, as I did.

Of course, this is the other area of HERO that can shine with tolerant players. Don't like the balance of one of the core powers. Change it's point cost. My own problem power is Entangle. I double the advantage cost of any Area of Effect advantage placed on Entangle because AoE combined with a low effect Entangle is just a bunch of helpless villains eating Haymakers turn after turn. (Sorry, that's a bit too HERO specific isn't it?)

Point is, if you think Vulnerability is too cheap, up it. If you don't want players scrounging for disads, change your base character costs. Just because the book says Superheroes start at 100 base/150 disad points doesn't mean you can't play your game as 150 base/100 disad.

 

[jmucchiello]

Except for speedsters who operate just like the Flash does... (That's an old problem with the game that has never been adequately addressed. All attempts fall flat in one area or another, most of them having to do with Hero system's phased movement rules.)

Depends on the point scale. You can't do Superman justice without about 500-600 character points. (And a pre-crisis Superman could be 800 character points easily.) A 500 character point Flash is not a problem. 5e has the (controversial) megascale advantage that will let you create a Flash who can run around the world in a few segments. (And again we aren't talking pre-crisis here, are we?)

 

[jmucchiello]

GURPS hasn't aged well. Right now, the system is quite unbalanced (e.g., Attribute Costs) and overcomplicated (e.g., the skill list).

However, they'll be fixing a lot of GURPS' problems in the upcoming 4th edition, due this August.

However, at that point it will be a two book system. Basic Set 1 is the PHB and Basic set 2 is the DMG.

 

[Lord_Anthrax]

HERO is, in terms of its built-in flexibility, THE game system. If you can think of it, you can build it in HERO, probably in about half a dozen different ways. One of the biggest things about HERO is that it holds no bars. Things that would be suicidal to include in other game systems are present in HERO, such as the aforementioned MegaScale power advantage. The nice thing HERO does do, however, is clearly mark things which could break your game, and things that will break your game unless you are very, VERY careful about their application. More than any other game I've seen, HERO requires a tight control on the part of the GM over what players can and cannot do. Otherwise players will be players and HERO turns into the biggest min/max-fest I've ever seen.

HERO also entails a lot of bookkeeping and has a fairly steep learning curve, given the vastness and depth you can create with it. However, I've found after years of playing Generic RPG's(such as GURPS)that games like HERO lose a lot of the flavor you get with more specialized game systems, such as D&D.
As Isaac Asimov once said, "Explaining a joke is like dissecting a live frog. The understanding is gained, but the thing usually dies in the process." So too dies some of the mystery and wonder you get with a more specific system.

That said, if you want to play a game that really gets under the hood and accounts for just about any variable you can imagine, HERO is it. No other comes close to it. Otherwise, you might be happier with a simpler system.

 

[Thanee]

While HERO is a multi-genre system, I also think it's best for the superhero genre, especially since the skill system is quite simple.

Of course, the power system allows everything to be done, but as someone else said, it's laid out and balanced for superhero campaigns.

Anyways HERO is by far the best point-buy system in existance. Of course, this also means, that it is one of the most complex (it's very easy to understand, actually, but so complex, that you will overlook a lot of stuff, if you are not used to it ).

The HERO system could be seen as a tool to create a game, not as a game itself. By that it's fairly different (and surely disappointing to some) than any other system in existance.

The primary purpose of the genrebooks is to help with all the work by precreating several items, spells, abilities, class concepts, packages, etc. that can be used readily.

Bye
Thanee

P.S. HERO 4th is not Fuzion. Fuzion is a conglomerate of HERO 4th and Interlock.

 

[Sir Whiskers]

Actually Champions II was a supplement, distinct from the second edition of the Champions game. It grafted on a lot of stuff that did not work well with Champions until the complete rewrite of the third edition, at which time it was folded into the main rules.

Fuzion was a separate rule system that came after the 4th edition of the Hero/Champions rules. The company that owned the system (I forget who it was by that point) had officially abandoned the Hero system and was trying to sell everybody on Fuzion, which was not quite compatible with Hero.

With only a few exceptions, the fifth edition is mechanically identical to the fourth--it's better written, though.

Thanks for the corrections. The memory's the first thing to go...

 

[buzz]

FYI, HERO is pretty much favorite system, jockeying with d20 for said honor.

I would also recommend to anyone thinking about HERO to pick up a book called Sidekick by Hero Games. Sidekick is a 128 page, $10 streamlined version of the rules. Some might call it dumbed down since it skips over some of the more complicated constructs but it is a completely playable RPG as long as your character builds are not too weird. And once you've mastered Sidekick, you can graduate to the HERO System rulebook in all its 370+ page glory. At which point you use your copy of Sidekick to lure people into playing HERO with you.

Beat me to it.

There has never been a better time to check out HERO. Steve Long and co. are caffeinated robots who pump out a *lot* of support material, contrary to what's been said above, all of which is written much more clearly than previous editions. Included in this is Sidekick, which as mentioned above, is basically HERO's learning edition and a great buy. I know people who've moved to using Sidekick exclusively as a "lite" version of their favorite game.

So, if you're considering HERO, start there.

Is HERO complex? During chargen, it can get overwhelming when you first use it. You have so many options that are wide open to you, it can be daunting to figure out where to put your points. If you're a GM, this becomes more of an issue of course... unless you don't worry about making the points add up (e.g., you don't need to know exactly where all the Disadvantage points came from for a one-shot villain; as long as you have combat stats and any pertinent vulnerabilties, you're good to go).

In play, though, I haven't found it any more complex than d20. In some ways, I find it a little easier, really. I tend to scribble way more notes and juggle situational modifiers (that I end up forgetting half the time) a lot more when I play D&D. I haven't seen combats take any longer either; usually less. Granted, I've got a 20+ year HERO vet GMing my game.

In general, I can't reccomend it enough. It's the mother of all point-based systems. It can handle more genres out of the box (no, it's not just for supers), with greater facility, than any other rules-heavy system I've seen. The staff of Hero Games is incredibly communicative and helpful; they crank out excellent books, yet still spend tons of time monitoring their forums. The supers campaign I've been in for the last year has been one of the best gaming experiences of my life.

Anyway, take a look at Sidekick. You can buy it online at places like http://www.frpgames.com for $7.99. If you like what you see, stick with it and run a game. If you're still happy, start checking out some of the sourcebooks. Eventually, if you're still happy, move on to the main HERO core book and start mainlining that sucka!

 

[Sketchpad]

I've been a fan of Hero for years While I've been running d20 for the last 4 years, I've recently picked up 5th ed and found it a great book! Streamlined from 4th ed, the newest edition is a monster book which goes under the title of a "Toolkit" and that's exactly what it is. You can build any campaign with this system and there are already a ton of campaigns in the work ... from Fantasy Hero to Star Hero to Champions and many, many more in the works. Author Steve Long said in a recent chat that the newest of genre books, Dark Champions, will include military packages for use in Hero ... allowing GMs to run a more modern adventure saga.
How hard is Hero? Well, for someone just getting into gaming, I would say it's intimidating ... but really hard? I never found it that way and I learned it when I was 15 (you know, back in the stone age). With the resources on the web, one of the best character programs made and a wealth of material kicked out by Steve Long on a fairly steady basis... make mine Hero
Do I still run d20? Yup ... for odd things and various campaigns we've been playing. It's a good system, but I'm hoping with 4e we'll see things escape the box ... make it easier to create balanced classes, magic items and species ... d20 needs construction rule.