The "I Didn't Comment in Another Thread" Thread

[prabe]

That is one bizarre thread.

You mean this one isn't?

 

[billd91]

You mean this one isn't?

It's like the difference between throwing a bullet and shooting it out of a gun.

 

[CleverNickName]

I don't know what it is about me and food metaphors lately, but I was the world's best babysitter the other day and I had an experience that reminded me of some of the ongoing discussions here on EN World.


Nephew: Aw, I don't like oatmeal raisin cookies.
Me: Oh no! Have you ever had one?
Nephew: No, I like chocolate chip.
Me: If you've never had oatmeal raisin, how do you know you don't like them?
Nephew: Because they're not chocolate chip.

Sometimes we enjoy something for what it is, but other times we enjoy something for what it isn't. I know there are people who like chocolate because it isn't vanilla, or Samsung because it isn't Apple. There are folks who prefer Piazo because they're not Wizards of the Coast, or Fighters because they aren't Wizards, or Foundry VTT because it isn't Roll20, and so on...when all else is functionally equal, we find a way to prefer one over the other. Everybody does this, but kids are more honest about it--they haven't learned to hide (disguise?) that kind of opinion yet. And that can be really frustrating to hear sometimes, especially for the Cool Uncle who just baked a fresh batch of his famous oatmeal raisin cookies out of the goodness of his heart, but that doesn't make his opinion wrong. People are people, and we're going to like what we like, and the justifications we invent are for other people's ears, not our own.

"Nonsense! Just try one before you say that," I'm tempted to say. But I stop myself because what I'd actually be saying is "your opinion isn't valid until I'm satisfied," and my nephew would probably think "Uncle Nick isn't very cool at all, and he's kind of a jerk about cookies." Hollywood movies have conditioned me to believe that one nibble of these warm, chewy, spiced cookies would validate me, and my niblings would all cheer and say things like "golly you're right! These are amazing!" and "I've been wrong about oatmeal raisin cookies, you're the best!" and "Uncle Nick, you're so much cooler than your brother." But that's fantasy. Best-case scenario, they will eat the entire batch of cookies without comment, and if I go fishing for compliments I'll get "they were okay but can we have chocolate chip next time?"

Nephew: Hello?
Me: Sorry, I was lost in thought. Well, today I made oatmeal raisin cookies. How about next week you bake chocolate chip cookies?
Nephew: You got it, my cookies are the best!
Me: I dunno, man. They're not snickerdoodles, so they're probably not very good...

 

[niklinna]

It's like the difference between throwing a bullet and shooting it out of a gun.

Or inserting them manually, as Mr. Kotter once said about how they do things in a certain tough borough of NYC.

 

[niklinna]

With or without Possibility use? Without, honestly, its a not exceptionally difficult table-read, which isn't that big a deal unless you hate table reads.

I said right in my post, not even considering the use of Possibilities!

Anyhow, since there's a bit of interest, here we go (with use of Possibilities)...this is compiled by me from the core rules and a sourcebook that adds a Disfavored mechanic (the actual rules text already has a fair amount of errata). I'll leave out individual spells and such that have their own complications to add, of course (a nontrivial amount!).

1. Roll a d20. This is your die roll total (a term not used in the books, but I use it for sanity).
2. If the test is Favored, and your die roll isn't a Mishap (not gonna drill into that), you may reroll, but then you have to keep the new initial d20 roll.
3. If instead the test is Disfavored, the first extra d20 roll that would be added to the total is ignored. This includes steps 4 & 5 immediately below, as well as conditions like Up (not gonna drill into that), or the first use of a Possibility (step 6).
4. If the test is for a raw attribute, or a skill in which you have adds, and the roll was a 10 or a 20, roll the d20 again and add the result to the total. Repeat this step until you don't roll a 10 or 20. (Note that the standard Torg Eternity phrasing for making skill tests is "skill or attribute", which makes it look like you can roll a raw attribute, but no, it's really a skill roll but they're trying to be nice by naming the base attribute.)
5. If the test is for a skill in which you don't have adds, and the roll was a 10, roll the d20, add the result to the total. Repeat this step until you don't roll a 10.
6. If you spend a Possibility, you get to roll another d20 and add it to the die roll total, with ongoing roll-agains on 10s and 20s as in steps 4 & 5 (although the rules are unclear on whether the "no skill adds" proviso applies). If that added d20 roll is below 10, however, treat the roll as a 10, but without any roll-agains. (Characters have their own personal Possibilities, and players can play cards titled Hero or Drama to add a Possibility to a test as well. They may only add 1 Possibility from each such source.)
7. Look up your die roll total on the Bonus Chart (below, except "Die Roll" should be "Die Roll Total"; some rules are about individual rolls of the d20 and some are about the accumulating total). This is the number you add to your skill or attribute value to get your test total. Note that the "Bonus" here is distinct from bonuses due to spell effects and other situational modifiers. Note that you add all other bonuses to the big-B Bonus, not to the die roll total.

And in combat, if you hit your target, there is further multi-step math to figure out how much of the two different damage types you do.

Simple! Easy peasy! I sure hope I didn't get anything wrong in all that....

 

[Ryujin]

I said right in my post, not even considering the use of Possibilities!

Anyhow, since there's a bit of interest, here we go (with use of Possibilities)...this is compiled by me from the core rules and a sourcebook that adds a Disfavored mechanic (the actual rules text already has a fair amount of errata). I'll leave out individual spells and such that have their own complications to add, of course (a nontrivial amount!).

1. Roll a d20. This is your die roll total (a term not used in the books, but I use it for sanity).
2. If the test is Favored, and your die roll isn't a Mishap (not gonna drill into that), you may reroll, but then you have to keep the new initial d20 roll.
3. If instead the test is Disfavored, the first extra d20 roll that would be added to the total is ignored. This includes steps 4 & 5 immediately below, as well as conditions like Up (not gonna drill into that), or the first use of a Possibility (step 6).
4. If the test is for a raw attribute, or a skill in which you have adds, and the roll was a 10 or a 20, roll the d20 again and add the result to the total. Repeat this step until you don't roll a 10 or 20. (Note that the standard Torg Eternity phrasing for making skill tests is "skill or attribute", which makes it look like you can roll a raw attribute, but no, it's really a skill roll but they're trying to be nice by naming the base attribute.)
5. If the test is for a skill in which you don't have adds, and the roll was a 10, roll the d20, add the result to the total. Repeat this step until you don't roll a 10.
6. If you spend a Possibility, you get to roll another d20 and add it to the die roll total, with ongoing roll-agains on 10s and 20s as in steps 4 & 5 (although the rules are unclear on whether the "no skill adds" proviso applies). If that added d20 roll is below 10, however, treat the roll as a 10, but without any roll-agains. (Characters have their own personal Possibilities, and players can play cards titled Hero or Drama to add a Possibility to a test as well. They may only add 1 Possibility from each such source.)
7. Look up your die roll total on the Bonus Chart (below, except "Die Roll" should be "Die Roll Total"; some rules are about individual rolls of the d20 and some are about the accumulating total). This is the number you add to your skill or attribute value to get your test total. Note that the "Bonus" here is distinct from bonuses due to spell effects and other situational modifiers. Note that you add all other bonuses to the big-B Bonus, not to the die roll total.

View attachment 299789

And in combat, if you hit your target, there is further multi-step math to figure out how much of the two different damage types you do.

Simple! Easy peasy! I sure hope I didn't get anything wrong in all that....

Are they still using all of K, O, Stamina, and Wound damage?

 

[niklinna]

Are they still using all of K, O, Stamina, and Wound damage?

I never played original but I know about K/O; those are gone. Torg Eternity uses Shock and Wound damage. If your total Shock damage exceeds your Shock stat (Torg Eternity is great about clear naming; I have added the "damage" and "stat" to clarify), you are knocked out. For example, if you have 8 Shock, you are knocked out once you take 9+ Shock damage. If your total Wound damage exceeds your Wounds stat, you don't just die imediately, you make a Defeat test, which can result in temporary/permanent injury or death, but you are knocked out in any case.

 

[Ryujin]

I never played original but I know about K/O; those are gone. Torg Eternity uses Shock and Wound damage. If your total Shock damage exceeds your Shock stat (Torg Eternity is great about clear naming; I have added the "damage" and "stat" to clarify), you are knocked out. For example, if you have 8 Shock, you are knocked out once you take 9+ Shock damage. If your total Wound damage exceeds your Wounds stat, you don't just die imediately, you make a Defeat test, which can result in temporary/permanent injury or death, but you are knocked out in any case.

If I remember correctly death, in 1e, was when your wound total was reached. Shock was the same and was equal to you Toughness Stat, unless you had something like cyberware to boost it (Shock Buffers, for example, added 10 Shock per installation). K and O were additional damage conditions. On the damage chart, based on how much you took, you started by receiving Os. As the damage received increased you received Ks. After that you received KOs (knocked out). You could take Os all day with no ill effects. If you took a K and then another K, or an O, you were knocked out. And KO was a knockout. I liked that they had a mechanic where you could take no actual damage, but still be knocked out, though at that point you would have also taken some Shock unless you used Possibilities to block the damage.

EDIT - Of course the characters that I made had such a high DEX/Dodge that if you actually managed to tag them, they would turn into a fine red mist.

 

[ichabod]

I was just looking at Tasha's Hideous Laughter, and it struck me that we shouldn't use LOL (laughing out loud) or ROFL (rolling on the floor laughing) on this board, we should use LIP (laughing, incapacitated, and prone).

 

[Scribe]

If we Thanos-snapped all the 4e bitterness, there would be a massive void in a ton of threads right now.