D&D General The Importance of "Official"

[Yaarel]

I've seen this perception at work fairly often in my local gaming scene. First-party materials operates under an assumption that it's been carefully playtested and "balanced" to integrate into the existing framework of extant materials. Third-party materials, conversely, are presumed to be unbalanced and potentially disruptive until proven otherwise.

So basically.

1st-party: innocent until proven guilty.
3rd-party: guilty until proven innocent.

 

[Alzrius]

So basically.

1st-party: innocent until proven guilty.
3rd-party: guilty until proven innocent.

In a nutshell, yes.

 

[Yaarel]

The main reason it almost never gets used is that it's almost never actually useful or relevant. You'd basically never hear of 2PP, because...that would be purely in-house, yet still a product of some kind? As soon as it starts being proposed to other users, it's automatically either a third-party product if it's still an add-on for the original first-party product, or it becomes its own first-party product.

E.g. while it was in playtesting, arguably, Pathfinder was a second-party product for Paizo itself, because it was product created "for" 3.5e, but only to be used internally by Paizo. But as soon as Paizo started selling its Pathfinder system on its own merits, it became a new and distinct first-party product based on the same fundamentals.

It's a bit like how there are lots of first-person games or narratives, and lots of third-person games or narratives, but very few second-person games or narratives. A second-person novel would be incredibly difficult to write and a really weird read. A second-person video game is...well I'm not even sure if it's possible, but I suppose something along the lines of Black & White might qualify, where the actual "participant" is not the player, but an artificial intelligence being given non-binding instructions by the player. (Similarly, "second-person perspective" is basically never used, because that would mean basically being at the level of having a conversation with the player character, which would be...really really difficult to employ in a gaming context.

So yeah. Technically "second-party material" does have a meaning, but it's so incredibly narrow and uncommon that there's not much need. Particularly since the vast majority of (actually-used) "2PP" is simply DM homebrew/house-rules/improvisation and thus not really a "product" proper. 2PP does sometimes actually come up in a software-design context, though, if a licensee of a particular product makes their own software for internal use that depends on the licensed product. For example, you license the Havok physics engine and then make a software module that builds off of it to provide some other useful functionality. Perhaps, for example, you build a cinematic-recording suite that can be used in any of the games your company makes as long as they're using the Havok engine; that recording suite would be second-party product as long as it stays within the company. It would become a third-party product (relative to the Havok engine) if you sold that recording suite to other people.

So, "customization" = 2nd-party?

 

[Shiroiken]

So yeah. Technically "second-party material" does have a meaning, but it's so incredibly narrow and uncommon that there's not much need. Particularly since the vast majority of (actually-used) "2PP" is simply DM homebrew/house-rules/improvisation and thus not really a "product" proper.

I think the only real advantage would be the ease of typing 2PP over homebrew/house-rule. I might start doing it just to confuse people

 

[Fenris-77]

I couldn't care less about official or not for games I run. I'll use what makes sense for that game.

 

[guachi]

With the low-mediocre quality of recent official material I see no reason to give what WotC publishes more weight than other material.

 

[HammerMan]

I have always been 3rd party friendly (I own role aids form 2e for demons and Archmages) however they are VERY hit or miss.

I have a lot of 3pp that I love, but I also have paid for things that will never get used because the quality is low.

I have WotC stuff I don't like too (Wild sorcerer will NEVER be in a game I run and you better believe I will complain if it is in a game I play)

so what is the difference? in my mind 98% of WotC stuff is playable and I LIKE 80% of it but can deal with the other 18%.... 3pp I would say is closer to 50/50 maybe even 40/60 of play ability.

 

[TwoSix]

so what is the difference? in my mind 98% of WotC stuff is playable and I LIKE 80% of it but can deal with the other 18%.... 3pp I would say is closer to 50/50 maybe even 40/60 of play ability.

My percentage is way higher, but I'm pretty careful in how I curate 3pp. I have trusted patreons and Kickstarters, and mostly rely on the Unearthed Arcana subreddit, which has pretty high standards.

 

[HammerMan]

My percentage is way higher, but I'm pretty careful in how I curate 3pp. I have trusted patreons and Kickstarters, and mostly rely on the Unearthed Arcana subreddit, which has pretty high standards.

well part of that is I don't but alot of 3pp anymore so MOST i buy are useable.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Yeah, that and the homebrew stuff on D&D Beyond, and UA. I feel kinda bad telling players "no" repeatedly, but I've always been clear on what I do and don't allow. I think, more than anything, it shows that there can be real confusion as to what "official" means.

The usual issue with Wiki stuff is that careless players find it on the Internet and assume it's official rules, rather than something anyone may have written. This definitely gives me as GM a prejudice against it, I get tired of having to google the source of some unlikely stuff. It's too much like my day job teaching!