D&D General The Importance of Page 33

[The Glen]

Tieflings in Mystara are something of a weird case.

They originated in Planescape, and in the 2e days, were more or less planar. Now Planescape and Mystara coexisted as supported 2e settings for 2 years, and Planescape counted Mystara as part of its cosmology. So a tiefling could theoretically cross from Planescape into Mystara. Mystara though had its own weird cosmology, but it was really only talked about in the old D&D rules. The D&D cosmology was similar with a Prime (Material) Plane, 4 elemental planes, an Astral and Ethereal. Outer Planes were much different, there was no Great Wheel, and they tended to be individual realms of the gods, connected to the Spheres, or alternate realities or something, I don't really remember. In any case, a traditional Mystara DM might use the old cosmology rather than the Great Wheel, and that might make tieflings a difficult fit at best. Not only that, but the DM might not like Planescape at all and not want to use it in his game. That was one of the big downsides to all of 2e's settings.

The way they established the setting in 2nd edition to tie it into the rest was that Mystara was part of the great wheel, but Immortals (ascended mortals that replaced the role of gods, and there were mechanical differences between gods nad immortals) did not want outside powers to influence The Mortals. This is because Immortals needed mortals to ascend to keep the Immortals relevant. If gods or demon Lords presented another option The Immortals would lose power.

Mystara had several crossovers with Sigil, the best known was a shadow elf that was physically split onto multiple forms to spy on all the factions at the same time. Immortals kept out Devils and Angels, and demons, gith and other malevolent outsiders had to sneak in or brute force their way in with the Immortals actively trying to keep at bay.

Interbreeding worked differently, as orcs were descended from beastmen, and weren't capable of breeding with humans or demihumans. All the beastmen races could freely interbreed. Demihumans and humans could interbreed but they resembled one parent or the other rather than a hybrid. The other parent's heritage stayed on as a kind of recessive trait, two if two humans with dwarf ancestry had a kid there was a good chance their kid was a dwarf instead of a human.

 

[jasper]

Tabaxi and Dragonborn aren’t monster races, firstly.
Second, no. A tabaxi in Victorian London would inspire curiosity and some temporary fright. People would assume they’re some manner of mutated human or something. A carnival freak.

[/QUOTE]
Call the bobbys. That circus freak is wandering the streets alone. Put the children in the back rooms. Lock it up. Lock it up. And fined the owner of circus.
Or is is monster. One of Mr. Hyde's evil companions. Throw rocks at it and drive it out of town.
If a player wanted to play what would be a carnival freak, or monster race (when the DM say no to tabaxi but compromises), the player should know being different is not has some bad results.

 

[Neonchameleon]

You honestly believe that if this ...


walked around in Victorian London the result would be a mild ‘huh, that’s odd’?

seriously?

what in the entire history of the human race would lead you to that conclusion?

I think that if we had D&D magic in the world then it wouldn't be the Tabaxi that was unbelievable so much as the mere existence of an unchanged Victorian London. No setting with the wish spell (or even quite a lot of other spells) should have a problem with a Tabaxi character dressed appropriately. And if we're not using D&D magic but something a lot more covert then we're not playing D&D.

As for what in the entire history of the human race? I live in modern London. If someone looking like that walked through the streets of modern London I'd expect them to be ignored or complemented them on their cosplay.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Tabaxi and Dragonborn aren’t monster races, firstly.
Second, no. A tabaxi in Victorian London would inspire curiosity and some temporary fright. People would assume they’re some manner of mutated human or something. A carnival freak.

Call the bobbys. That circus freak is wandering the streets alone. Put the children in the back rooms. Lock it up. Lock it up. And fined the owner of circus.
Or is is monster. One of Mr. Hyde's evil companions. Throw rocks at it and drive it out of town.
If a player wanted to play what would be a carnival freak, or monster race (when the DM say no to tabaxi but compromises), the player should know being different is not has some bad results.
[/QUOTE]
This mindset toward the world is...not one I want anywhere near a table I’m at.

Glad we only interact on the internet.

 

[clearstream]

There is a reason that the only example I’ve ever seen that made sense to me (for fantasy) was First Contact. Why would dwarves stick out? If I’d never read Earthsea, and I picked it up, and the main character was a dwarf...nothing significant about the story has changed. He’s a dwarf. As long as the skin colors described in the book don’t get whitewashed in the process, literally nothing is lost. Whether anything is gained depends on how the races are presented, but nothing is lost by the simple inclusion of multiple fantasy races to the setting.

This "dwarf" would be a goat-herd, sailor and wizard. They would be soft-spoken, red-skinned and clean shaven. They would be nimble on the planks of a ship, and a confident swimmer. There would literally be nothing dwarfie about them except for the label. Alternatively, there would be something dwarfie about them... and the feel of the setting is changed.

Where we land I think is that you don't mind such things. I do. I find the arguments you present thoroughly uncompelling, and must suppose you feel the same about mine. That feels about as far as we can get for the moment. Happy adventuring

 

[Azuresun]

This mindset toward the world is...not one I want anywhere near a table I’m at.

Glad we only interact on the internet.

It sounds here like you're insinuating that another poster's views on what a fantasy world's views towards strange and terrifying-looking beings could be (not to mention settings where that fear is overwhelmingly justified, like Drow in most regions of the FR) is a reflection on how they think the real world should be. That's a pretty uncharitable leap to make.

 

[FrozenNorth]

Say the exchange is exactly that: A is okay with Tabaxi, B is not. And B is DM. How would you resolve that dilemma?

If I am B, I give A the benefit of the doubt. I have mastery over all space and time, the fact that I personally dislike tabaxi (in general, not how this tabaxi is played), means I can be the bigger person.

If I am neither A nor B, it really isn’t my business.

 

[Hussar]

If I am B, I give A the benefit of the doubt. I have mastery over all space and time, the fact that I personally dislike tabaxi (in general, not how this tabaxi is played), means I can be the bigger person.

If I am neither A nor B, it really isn’t my business.

This, right here , is the proper response. The dm can instantly whip out his magic editing stick and make room for anything in a setting.

It’s funny. When TSR or WotC adds races to existing settings, they are being creative and interesting. When a player does it, that’s a problem player.

 

[Hussar]

See, there seems to a conflation of issues here.

On one hand, we're talking about adding tabaxi or dragonborn or tieflings to Mystara. That's not exactly a stretch since stuff that already looks pretty much exactly like that already exists. Someone wants to play a Tabaxi? Well, in Mystara Tabaxi are called Rakasta. Dragonborn? There's five (or more) different options for scaley folk, fill your boots. Tieflings might be a bit more problematic since Mystara doesn't have devils in it. But, here's a Diaboli and that fits the bill pretty closely.

On the other hand, you have the clockwork, steampunk elf from another dimension that clearly doesn't fit in the campaign. Fair enough. That's a table issue, and needs to be worked out because obviously the player and the DM are not on the same page. There's zero buy in from the player at that point and that's going to cause all sorts of problems in the game. Fair enough.

There's a rather large middle ground here that seems to be getting ignored.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

This "dwarf" would be a goat-herd, sailor and wizard. They would be soft-spoken, red-skinned and clean shaven. They would be nimble on the planks of a ship, and a confident swimmer. There would literally be nothing dwarfie about them except for the label. Alternatively, there would be something dwarfie about them... and the feel of the setting is changed.

Where we land I think is that you don't mind such things. I do. I find the arguments you present thoroughly uncompelling, and must suppose you feel the same about mine. That feels about as far as we can get for the moment. Happy adventuring

I said nothing significant would change, not that nothing would change. The cultural flavor of his home, him being cleanshaven, etc, either have absolutely no impact on the story or just wouldn't be affect at all by him being a dwarf.

Things in the story would change. How his POV feels when interacting with a larger race would be a bit different, for instance. But no moreso than is presented by very different cultures.

It sounds here like you're insinuating that another poster's views on what a fantasy world's views towards strange and terrifying-looking beings could be (not to mention settings where that fear is overwhelmingly justified, like Drow in most regions of the FR) is a reflection on how they think the real world should be. That's a pretty uncharitable leap to make.

Speaking of leaps. What I'm "insinuating" is that I don't like the other poster's mindset on storytelling, and I'm glad that I don't have anyone in my group who thinks the same way they do. There may be a further insinuation that their view on storytelling tells me something that I don't like about their more general mindset toward how the world is, but it's wildly illogical to conclude that I'm suggesting anything about their view of how the real world should be.