The impossibility of Point of Light settings

[le grand fromage]

The Fall of the Roman Empire

Exactly, the Roman Empire took centuries to collapse & Byzantium etc. arguably took up the torch... Whilst even in such benighted places as Gaul or Brittan life went on as "normal" in places whilst in other areas the lands were devastated. Just replace Goth, Angle, Jute or Dane with Orc & Goblin et voilà you have your "points of light" campaign...

 

[DemoMonkey]

It helps if you think of POL settings as basically Post-Apocalypse settings without guns and cars.

This isn't a civilization that has evolved this way. It is the desperate survivors of whatever came before, trying to survive and - with the help of adventurers - rebuild. The whole edifice may be only a few years away from mass extinction if the players can't turn the tide.

 

[MGibster]

Points of Light as a setting idea always crops up from time to time and D&D 4E heavily advertised with it. But what always bugged me with that is how it ignores how much interconnected infrastructure (to avoid the term civilization) is required to achieve something like the default technological level in D&D.

If you're wondering how he eats and breaths /
and other science facts /
la, la, la /
Just repeat to yourself it's just a show /
I should really just relax.

I was running a Deadlands: Hell on Earth (post apocalyptic future) set in the remains of Little Rock, Arkansas and one of my players started asking questions about the vital statistics of the settlement. What was the population, how many were men, how many were women, how many children, how many households, how many mutants, and so on and so forth. As I answered each question, the look of realization dawned on her face and she asked, "You're just making this all up right now!" And it was the truth. Other than having a rough estimate of the total population, I didn't give any more thought to the demographic makeup because it didn't matter to me. Perhaps if we were playing futuristic census takers in a post apocalyptic world I would have paid more attention.

My use of the theme from Mystery Science Theater 3000 up there is tongue-in-cheek. There's nothing wrong with building a world that might actually work in real life. Personally, I'm much more concerned with creating a world with a ton of adventure hooks and cool things to do and I don't worry overly much about things like where the city gets food, who do they trade with, what are the demographics, etc., etc. Unless those things are going to come into play during an adventure. All I require is a little verisimilitude and I'm fine.

 

[Lord_Blacksteel]

"The impossibility of Point of Light settings"

• Cites historical research.
• Ignores fact that magic spells and abilities and items are not real.
• Ignores fact that fantasy races do not exist.
• Ignores fact that most fantasy RPG monsters do not exist.
• Ignores fact that fantasy deities, typically active and involved in the world, do not exist.
• Ignores fact that vast ruins of a prior magical civilization do not exist.

Attempting to use historical data, typically extrapolated in modern times from projections of what probably existed at some earlier time, while ignoring all of the other elements that make a fantasy setting a fantasy setting is a pointless exercise.

At a practical level, as others have mentioned, this kind of setting is typically post-apocalyptic. Resources and tools left over from the prior situation are often critical to survival and the dwindling supply of those resources with an inability to recreate them is a huge motivation for adventuring.

 

[Blue Orange]

I don't see what's wrong with trying to do a little world-building--some people enjoy it and it can sometimes serve as the basis for adventures. Tolkien said we were created in God's image, so of course we like to make up worlds too.

That said real life had no magic or monsters, and you're probably not going to stat out every inhabitant of the village (and certainly not of Waterdeep/Palanthas/Gotham).

I think it was the revised 2nd ed DMG that argued for the 'fallen empire' as a source of the magic and treasure. In an apex society, the staff of magi and longsword +5 are going to be in the High Wizard's Tower and carried by the General of the King's Forces, respectively, and your characters will have no chance of getting them. (Where do we put nuclear weapons nowadays? How about expensive medications? Large airplanes?) But if the Empire fell...

 

[Aldarc]

I don't see what's wrong with trying to do a little world-building--some people enjoy it and it can sometimes serve as the basis for adventures. Tolkien said we were created in God's image, so of course we like to make up worlds too.

I strongly suspect that the genesis of this idea predates Tolkien.

 

[J.Quondam]

Perhaps if we were playing futuristic census takers in a post apocalyptic world

Hmmm... You know... I think I'd totally play that game.

 

[Emirikol]

Fantasy food is more nutritious and requires a lot less land.
Fantasy technology is more efficient and requires less to work out.
Sickness isn't really a thing either in fantasy settings.
PCs can be artisans who evdently can make things 10x faster (during an adventure no doubt), therefore it is the same for everything else.
[Insert remaining handwaiveyness here ]

 

[Carlsen Chris]

No self-respecting academic working in the field calls the Middle Ages "the Dark ages" anymore. The Bright Ages — Matthew Gabriele

 

[hopeless]

Well what isn't taken into account is exactly how much food and drinkable water is available within the settlement itself.

If its a post apocalyptic society for example they may have vast underground levels used as hydroponics and access to the sea with the means to remove any pollutants or even turn salt water into drinking water.

Maybe part of the reason for expeditions outside is because sooner or later those resources are going to falter meaning they need to expand and fortify the new boundaries to keep their growing kingdom safe and secure.

And of course its very likely they're going to run into the borders of nearby kingdoms or settlements that they need to create diplomatic ties or might go to war with over the resources both need to survive.

Do the Cleric's or Druids have a hand in healing or creating that food and water?
There is so many questions a fantasy POL setting needs to answer that a regular one doesn't.

A game I had been running even had a dwarf run submarine intended to allow them to maintain a bridge designed to move allowing large mast ships to pass up or down river meaning scuba dwarves!

Another big deal I wanted to get into, but never got far enough was reveal that vegetation and crops were being aided by access to the Feywild so if that tie was cut all the vegetation would start to die as nature on that world was dependent on that access.

Has anyone tried that in your games reveal the Feywild is extremely important for life on that world?