The Mandalorian | Official Trailer | Disney+ | Streaming Nov. 12

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
Whose IG-88? real answer from someone who has no clue other than movies: He's that droid that stood with the other bounty hunters on the bridge in ESB or one like him?
This one is a different robot - IG-11, I think they said.
 

Jacob Lewis

The One with the Force
But I remember people being upset about his unceremonious (humorous) death.
Return of the Jedi was the time when Lucas wanted to be done with Star Wars. He was sick of Hollywood shenanigans, going through several directors at this point, and finally settling for one who would allow him to direct him from the backseat.

Lucas was not happy with the Sarlaac. Carrie Fisher, in particular, was brutal in her nickname for the poorly constructed prop. (You'll need to google or look up what she said as I won't challenge the filters or the CoC here.) There was disagreements on how to handle Fett's defeat. Lucas wanted to make it more epic, but budgets and effects being what they were limited his options. Frustrated, he finally just said "Toss him in the pit" and left the shoot for the day.
 

Hussar

Legend
Again, not caring. It was a throwaway character just like the bajillion other throwaway characters in Star Wars. Only thing is, once the EU got rolling, EVERYONE got a backstory and a bloody novel. It was ludicrous.

And, the EU is what's killing Star Wars now. Grumbling fanboys who cannot bear to see any interpretation of the stories other than their own, who are so deeply embedded in the fandom that they cannot understand how they are choking the life from the IP and can't let it go.

See, because like @Mercurious above, I saw the originals in the theater. I played with the toys. Heck, even read the Thrawn books, because, well, they were pretty darn good. But, that's about as far as it goes. Played the old Tie fighter game back in the day too AIR. But all that other stuff? Totally bypassed me. So, frankly, I really, really don't care.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
I'm terrible with names but just watched Deadpool the other day.

Just found out the NR ex commando was in that and Pedro was in GoT.

I only recognised Gianocarlo from Breaking Bad.

Derp.
 

Mustrum_Ridcully

Adventurer
Again, not caring. It was a throwaway character just like the bajillion other throwaway characters in Star Wars. Only thing is, once the EU got rolling, EVERYONE got a backstory and a bloody novel. It was ludicrous.

And, the EU is what's killing Star Wars now. Grumbling fanboys who cannot bear to see any interpretation of the stories other than their own, who are so deeply embedded in the fandom that they cannot understand how they are choking the life from the IP and can't let it go.
Well, the "old EU" is also what kept Star Wars a cash cow between the trilogies. If we didn't have that, chances are good there would be no new Star Wars at all, because it would have been forgotten.

Also it seems to be a false dichotomy to claim that new Star Wars could not possibly retain the EU fans. It's just there particular approach didn't work to retain them. And if the EU fans not watching Star Wars is what's "killing" Star Wars now, then it means that it should have taken a different approach to keep this EU fans, because clearly they are neccessary.

That said, the claim that "EU fans are killing Star Wars now" seems quite questionable, I believe only the Solo movie wasn't a success. Maybe that was due to missteps in TLJ as critical fans claim, but they could gasp be wrong about that and it was just that no one really cared that much about Han Solo's backstory. Or the people that would have cared where those terrible EU fans that kill Star Wars, and they had already a decent Han Solo backstory trilogy in novel form and didn't need a new take.
But again, if the EU fans are killing Star Wars, then only because they are sizeable part of the Star Wars fandom, and it's not a good move to alienate them.

But I honestly believe the EU has not that much to do with it. If anything, it's the reason people still care so much about Star Wars and its idiosyncrasies, because it kept the interest alive.

But I think it's also fairly easy to understand that people are not really happy if the Hero of a trilogy of movies turns into a failure that has given up on helping people and abandonded the family he gained in the trilogy. You don't need to be versed in the EU to think that maybe this is not the story that every fan of the OT wanted to see. I am not even sure if that is the story J.J.Abrahms wanted to see when he made TFA.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
Well, the "old EU" is also what kept Star Wars a cash cow between the trilogies. If we didn't have that, chances are good there would be no new Star Wars at all, because it would have been forgotten.

Also it seems to be a false dichotomy to claim that new Star Wars could not possibly retain the EU fans. It's just there particular approach didn't work to retain them. And if the EU fans not watching Star Wars is what's "killing" Star Wars now, then it means that it should have taken a different approach to keep this EU fans, because clearly they are neccessary.

That said, the claim that "EU fans are killing Star Wars now" seems quite questionable, I believe only the Solo movie wasn't a success. Maybe that was due to missteps in TLJ as critical fans claim, but they could gasp be wrong about that and it was just that no one really cared that much about Han Solo's backstory. Or the people that would have cared where those terrible EU fans that kill Star Wars, and they had already a decent Han Solo backstory trilogy in novel form and didn't need a new take.
But again, if the EU fans are killing Star Wars, then only because they are sizeable part of the Star Wars fandom, and it's not a good move to alienate them.

But I honestly believe the EU has not that much to do with it. If anything, it's the reason people still care so much about Star Wars and its idiosyncrasies, because it kept the interest alive.

But I think it's also fairly easy to understand that people are not really happy if the Hero of a trilogy of movies turns into a failure that has given up on helping people and abandonded the family he gained in the trilogy. You don't need to be versed in the EU to think that maybe this is not the story that every fan of the OT wanted to see. I am not even sure if that is the story J.J.Abrahms wanted to see when he made TFA.
I think the treatment if Han and Luke in particular lost a lot of fans as well. Leia to a lesser extent.

Failing to develop the new characters as well such as Finn doing the coward to hero routine twice over.

OT characters changed from ANH to ESB, imperious princess to base commander, farm boy to Jedi apprentice, mercenary pilot to heroic. Flipping Finn's potential romance angle with Rey to new relationship with new character and 0 chemistry from the actors.
 
I think the treatment if Han and Luke in particular lost a lot of fans as well. Leia to a lesser extent.

Failing to develop the new characters as well such as Finn doing the coward to hero routine twice over.

OT characters changed from ANH to ESB, imperious princess to base commander, farm boy to Jedi apprentice, mercenary pilot to heroic. Flipping Finn's potential romance angle with Rey to new relationship with new character and 0 chemistry from the actors.
I agree with all of this, if from a less-invested place (I really like SW, but don't love it to the degree that you clearly do, so I can understand why this stuff would bother you so much).

Star Wars has never really done characters well, but Han, Luke and Leia--not to mention Obi-Wan, Vader, Lando and others--were all very distinct in the original trilogy. I won't even go into the prequels, but the characters have generally felt flat in the sequels, and it seems to have less to do with the actors than it does with the scripts.

For instance, Oscar Isaac is one of my favorite actors of his generation (he was born in 1979, so is late Gen X/cusp of Millenial), but Dameron Poe is like a mash-up of the least interesting elements of Luke and Han. John Boyega has also played some good roles, but Finn must be the most annoying of the main characters. Adam Driver is a brilliant comedic and physical actor but just miscast, or poorly written. Daisy Ridley is probably the best of the new protags, in terms of combination of acting and script, but she has her own problems and hasn't really distinguished her own unique flavor of heroism.

But the treatment of Han and Luke is the worst. I don't mind Luke being troubled, or Han dying, but I just hate the feeling that their lives post Return of the Jedi were rather miserable. Obviously we can't know this, but that's the feeling I get from the sequels. It sort of makes that Ewok party seem rather hollow. Happily Ever After might be unrealistic, but maybe Somewhat Happily For Sometime After?
 

Hussar

Legend
You misunderstand me. EU fans are killing Star Wars, not because they aren't watching, but, because every single thing that comes out gets dogpiled and giant piles of feces flung around as hard as they can, no matter what.

IOW, the movies haven't even been given a chance to succeed. The notion that folks might not be bothered by Han, the amoral smuggler, being so stricken by his failure as a parent that he abandons Leia, as not being all that much of a stretch. Remember, he didn't leave until AFTER Kylo Ren went evil.

If your child turned out to be a mass murdering monster, it might put a strain on your marriage too.
 

Legatus_Legionis

< BLAH HA Ha ha >
I've always been baffled by the popularity of Boba Fett. A nothing character with a couple of throwaway lines killed off for a quick laugh.

Why do people care?
One has to look back at the time Boba Fett was introduced.

Episode IV introduced the world to Darth Vader.

Episode V, everyone was afraid of Vader. Imperial Officers were nothing to Vader. Then when they introduced the bounty hunters, Vader stopped in front of Fett to give the order "No Disintegrate". Of which Boba replied was a simple "As you wish." His tone was not that of one who was afraid of Vader. And his smarts to find the Falcon right away made Boba someone not to cross.

While Lando showed how scared he was with Vader changing the terms of the agreement, Boba showed no fear, and had even stood up to Vader about the potential loss with delivering Solo to the Hutts.

Boba Fett was someone to be feared. And the mystery around Fett (they deliberately had never revealed its gender/background other than it wore Mandalorian Armour during the Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi movies.

Then came the prequels, and we learned even more. And how his father was the template for the clone army, and was able to take on a Jedi on its own. And he was a clone of his father, trained to be just as fearsome as he was.

Even without the prequels, Boba Fett was a more interesting character than a Captain Phasma. We wanted to know more about Fett than Phasma.

Then add the novels, comics, video games, etc, and Boba Fett was a character people loved to get to know more.

That he was dumped into the Sarlac pit was a poetic defeat, foreshadowing the similar defeat of the technologically advanced Empire to the primitive Ewoks.

And how shows like Adult Swim made fun of that scene only made us like Fett all the more. That he escaped in some version of the character, only adds to his fame.

That is why we fans care.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
You misunderstand me. EU fans are killing Star Wars, not because they aren't watching, but, because every single thing that comes out gets dogpiled and giant piles of feces flung around as hard as they can, no matter what.

IOW, the movies haven't even been given a chance to succeed. The notion that folks might not be bothered by Han, the amoral smuggler, being so stricken by his failure as a parent that he abandons Leia, as not being all that much of a stretch. Remember, he didn't leave until AFTER Kylo Ren went evil.

If your child turned out to be a mass murdering monster, it might put a strain on your marriage too.
Han had the same story arch in the old EU.

His son turned, and was killed by his sister.

But him and Leia still had their happy times. Luke got married, founded a Jedi academy, trained new Jedi.

Logical storytelling after RotJ yes?

Also see why we're calling Disney creatively bankrupt? They can't even rip themselves off correctly.

I think we're already seeing a course correction. Resistance got cancelled and a new season of clone wars is being made.

Mandalorian looks badass, getting races trailer reviews, original, grittier getting away from Skywalker's.

New trailer for Dark Empire I mean RoS is pushing OT stuff hard.

Disney is losing money, the lost money on a Star Wars movie and even casuals are not going to the Star Wars theme park in numbers. Oh the new toys aren't selling either or you can get them for 50 cents.

Its more than just a few EU fans upset with Disney.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
One has to look back at the time Boba Fett was introduced.

Episode IV introduced the world to Darth Vader.

Episode V, everyone was afraid of Vader. Imperial Officers were nothing to Vader. Then when they introduced the bounty hunters, Vader stopped in front of Fett to give the order "No Disintegrate". Of which Boba replied was a simple "As you wish." His tone was not that of one who was afraid of Vader. And his smarts to find the Falcon right away made Boba someone not to cross.

While Lando showed how scared he was with Vader changing the terms of the agreement, Boba showed no fear, and had even stood up to Vader about the potential loss with delivering Solo to the Hutts.

Boba Fett was someone to be feared. And the mystery around Fett (they deliberately had never revealed its gender/background other than it wore Mandalorian Armour during the Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi movies.

Then came the prequels, and we learned even more. And how his father was the template for the clone army, and was able to take on a Jedi on its own. And he was a clone of his father, trained to be just as fearsome as he was.

Even without the prequels, Boba Fett was a more interesting character than a Captain Phasma. We wanted to know more about Fett than Phasma.

Then add the novels, comics, video games, etc, and Boba Fett was a character people loved to get to know more.

That he was dumped into the Sarlac pit was a poetic defeat, foreshadowing the similar defeat of the technologically advanced Empire to the primitive Ewoks.

And how shows like Adult Swim made fun of that scene only made us like Fett all the more. That he escaped in some version of the character, only adds to his fame.

That is why we fans care.
Phasma was popular, she has a cool story in the new cannon. Never saw it on screen. Rey's force power thing, not put on screen. New Star Destroyers ate badass. Not seen on screen.

Yet another character that wasn't developed properly. Interesting armor check, popular actor check, gets used as comic relief check.
 

Legatus_Legionis

< BLAH HA Ha ha >
Phasma was popular when she was first introduced. And yay, it was another character that wasn't developed properly. Interesting armor check, popular actress check, gets used as comic relief check.

She folded (and a future novel had to explain why she folded).

Boba Jett never lost that interest. Even after the Sarlac pit, people still wanted more.

So learning more about the Mandalorians, their culture, etc. is still very much there.

I can't say the same thing about Phasma and her background/history/culture.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
Phasma was popular when she was first introduced. And yay, it was another character that wasn't developed properly. Interesting armor check, popular actress check, gets used as comic relief check.

She folded (and a future novel had to explain why she folded).

Boba Jett never lost that interest. Even after the Sarlac pit, people still wanted more.

So learning more about the Mandalorians, their culture, etc. is still very much there.

I can't say the same thing about Phasma and her background/history/culture.
Apparently she's not a brave person irvtrue believer in the New Order. Opportunistic.
 
You misunderstand me. EU fans are killing Star Wars, not because they aren't watching, but, because every single thing that comes out gets dogpiled and giant piles of feces flung around as hard as they can, no matter what.

IOW, the movies haven't even been given a chance to succeed. The notion that folks might not be bothered by Han, the amoral smuggler, being so stricken by his failure as a parent that he abandons Leia, as not being all that much of a stretch. Remember, he didn't leave until AFTER Kylo Ren went evil.

If your child turned out to be a mass murdering monster, it might put a strain on your marriage too.
This came after my post with no quotes, so am not sure if this is to me or Zardnaar.

Anyhow, I agree that there are rabid and unreasonable haters out there that muddy the waters - obviously. But the thing is, there's also fanboyism that will defend anything that comes out, always finding a way to like whatever the official product is, and accusing any kind of critique as haterism. So we end up in a very partisan reality of haters vs. fanboys, us vs. them, you're either with us or against us--which dominates geekdom, internet discussion in general, and culture and politics at large...and it seems to be getting worse on a daily basis.

My issue with the fanboyism is that it implies that any criticisms of something, in this case SW, are inherently based on hating or bad grapes etc. In other words, there are valid reasons to not like the new trilogy that have nothing to do with the EU, with hating, with excessive nerdery, misogyny, racism, etc.

Zardnaar might be a bit dogged in his criticisms, but he clearly does so out of love for the franchise, and it seems to me that his critiques are pretty reasonable.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
This came after my post with no quotes, so am not sure if this is to me or Zardnaar.

Anyhow, I agree that there are rabid and unreasonable haters out there that muddy the waters - obviously. But the thing is, there's also fanboyism that will defend anything that comes out, always finding a way to like whatever the official product is, and accusing any kind of critique as haterism. So we end up in a very partisan reality of haters vs. fanboys, us vs. them, you're either with us or against us--which dominates geekdom, internet discussion in general, and culture and politics at large...and it seems to be getting worse on a daily basis.

My issue with the fanboyism is that it implies that any criticisms of something, in this case SW, are inherently based on hating or bad grapes etc. In other words, there are valid reasons to not like the new trilogy that have nothing to do with the EU, with hating, with excessive nerdery, misogyny, racism, etc.

Zardnaar might be a bit dogged in his criticisms, but he clearly does so out of love for the franchise, and it seems to me that his critiques are pretty reasonable.
Cheers if you don't like women Star Wars may not be the franchise for you. In the OT Leia comes across as the leader, then you find out Mon Mothma is the leader.

In the old EU she become the first leader of the New Republic, then Leia and when the EU ended the main protagonist was was female, the main galactic villain was female, and the source of all evil was female. The standout character of the last books was also female.

3 most popular characters outside the movies are probably Thrawn, Mara Jade and Ahsako Tano.

To be fair it's easier to develop characters in novels,even the OT would seem rushed in some ways but you only have two hours or so in a movie so a simple line of exposition can be used here and there.

You don't really need back stories for characters where it's implied by their position. Mon Mothma is the rebel leader she must have some skills related to it, Jedi Knights you would assume they would know the business end of a lightsaber.

Fett stands up to Vader, he's a badass very simple it works well in the movie format. ANH established Vader as a villain, ESB made him a badass.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
And the prequels, which completely stripped him of any mystery. Whoever asked to see The Man With No Name as a child?
Only time the mysterious character like that got a backstory and it was good was Roland from the Dark Tower series.

The EU canon has giant talking rabbits. I think that pretty much sums up my views on the EU canon.
That is so vastly less silly than half the creatures in the movies, I don’t even know how to process the idea of using it as an example against the EU, even as someone whose only investment in the EU is playing the RPG and having a friend who wrote EU canon articles about Galactic linguistics, but otherwise is glad the EU is fully non-canonical.
 

Hussar

Legend
Only time the mysterious character like that got a backstory and it was good was Roland from the Dark Tower series.



That is so vastly less silly than half the creatures in the movies, I don’t even know how to process the idea of using it as an example against the EU, even as someone whose only investment in the EU is playing the RPG and having a friend who wrote EU canon articles about Galactic linguistics, but otherwise is glad the EU is fully non-canonical.
I guess silly is in the eye of the beholder. Me, adding Bugs Bunny to Star Wars is pretty darn silly. :D

 

Zardnaar

Hero
That was the old Marvel comics early 80s.

The comebacks more 1991+ and Dark Horse comics.

The very early pre Heir to the Empire stuff is a bit crazy especially the comics. The Han stuff is well regarded, the Lando stuff not so much.

There's also Splinter of the Minds Eye which was a cheaper episode V written after ANH but before ESB. Vader was after a kyber crystal, Disney didn't invent those.

That along with the Droid cartoons, Ewok movies, Holiday Special not that well regarded.
 

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