D&D 5E The Misrepresentation of Charisma

[RedSiegfried]

It can be "roleplayed" in any manner the player chooses since the player determines how the character thinks, acts, and talks regardless of what the character's Charisma score is.

One could say the same for Intelligence, but that's another conversation entirely.

Sorry, couldn't resist commenting.

 

[Ancalagon]

Isn't that now Investigation?

By gather information I meant hitting the street and talking to people, trying to ferret out information, gather rumors etc. A very social activity. I don't have the book with me so I will have to reread investigation later, but some aspects of the old gather information skill (I mean 3.x here) are definitely under charisma checks.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Ancalagon]

I *do* have the SRD on my phone and investigation seems to be for physical clues mostly, no talking with people

 

[pdzoch]

I dunno, my typical understanding of Charisma is that it is your ability to be effective in social situations.
IE:
Intelligence is your ability to construct a plan of battle.
Wisdom is your ability to judge how successful it will be.
Charisma is your ability to convince the troops to follow the plan.

IMO: unless your game is running a comeliness score, I have always held that your character is exactly as beautiful or ugly as you want it to be. You may get some points here or there based on your looks....until you open your mouth.

I like the phrase "until you open your mouth."

The Comeliness score is an interesting aspect that shows up a couple of time on this thread. Comeliness would address the different facet of charisma that is often used as the overriding aspect. It parallels the use of constitution to parse out a different type of strength from the strength score (ability to endure versus ability to lift/ "intestinal fortitude" versus physical prowess).

I think one of the reasons it was not included is because comeliness is so subjective (Beauty is in the eye of the beholder). The ability scores are not so subjective. Sure, I suppose the affect of a strength check could be achieve by either raw physical power (big muscles), efficiency (honed body through training) or by technique such as leveraging (kinesiology), but the effect of the ability score was nevertheless consistent. There is no expectation that the STR 18 character had to be of a Conan type build, and seldom are monk characters portrayed as large and muscular prototypical barbarian builds. None of the ability scores are required to limit how a character is described. I recall long ago that certain races in the game has certain limits on ability scores, but that is no longer the case. Players are much more free to describe the character as they wish. But that charisma score sure does tend to reflect comeliness of a description more often than the Rasputin like presence.

 

[pdzoch]

Who are these people doing this misunderstanding? How has it made their roleplaying flawed? What gave you the insight that lets you see the truth, where so many others have fallen to the wayside of wrong thinking? Do all the half-elf sorcadins know that they should be boosting their charisma instead of constitution?

Appreciate the tongue in cheek.

Certainly not advocating charisma over constitution unless it serves the character class mechanics or character story telling.

 

[ccs]

Do you really suppose an Orc or a Hobgoblin or an Ogre lacks the ability to influence the emotions of others to the extent that the monster manual pegs their Charisma scores?

Yes, at least the average example presented in this MM.
Beyond that?

As a player: I don't really give crap. I'll kill them & harvest the xp/treasure either way. The only way it matters to me is concerning the DCs vs spells etc. Either me resisting theirs or they against mine.

As the DM:
I control the game. So if I decide I need a hobgoblins Cha to be higher than whatever some WoTC game designer thought it should be? Then I'll set it to what I please.

 

[iserith]

Isn't that now Investigation?

By gather information I meant hitting the street and talking to people, trying to ferret out information, gather rumors etc. A very social activity. I don't have the book with me so I will have to reread investigation later, but some aspects of the old gather information skill (I mean 3.x here) are definitely under charisma checks.

The Basic Rules specifically call out the fictional action declaration of "Find the best person to talk to for news, rumors, and gossip..." is resolved with a Charisma check, when the outcome of that action has an uncertain outcome.

As well, the Research downtime activity says "Research can include poring over dusty tomes and crumbling scrolls in a library or buying drinks for the locals to pry rumors and gossip from their lips... The DM might also require you to make one or more ability checks, such as an Intelligence (Investigation) check to find clues pointing toward the information you seek, or a Charisma (Persuasion) check to secure someone’s aid.

 

[iserith]

Are group checks still a thing?
I could see charisma group checks being a thing to penalise dumping charisma, such as when meeting royalty.

Group checks are for when a number of individuals are trying to accomplish something as a group, so it would require a fictional action declaration along those lines. I'm not a math guy, but the rules say "in such a situation, the characters who are skilled at a particular task help cover those who aren't," so the intent appears to be that a group check would not be a penalty. Someone smarter than me will have to say whether the math supports that intent. My experience at the table says that it does since you mitigate the risk of that one guy failing the check and blowing it for everyone else at the table.

 

[Corwin]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but you can't use charisma if you're dead, hence the valuation of charisma over CON with most players. Once you are sure you'll live through an Orcish axe to the face, then you can think about deception and persuasion.

Why wouldn't your Charisma help prevent the orc from ever wanting to try putting his axe in your face?