D&D General The Monsters Know What They're Doing ... Are Unsure on 5e24

[AlViking]

I'm a fan of actual compromise, not..... that.

Then what's your counter? If it's the visual that's fine. It can be any kind of visual for the armor that you want.

 

[TwoSix]

When I first heard the expression, "humans in funny hats," I immediately envisioned a campaign setting where every humanoid "species" is a group of humans who acquired new physical and magical traits based upon the costumes they chose to wear during a magical coming of age ceremony.

If I ever run that campaign, I won't approach it as a comedy. It will be dark. It will probably have a Southern Gothic theme, plus lots of carnival scenes and masquerade balls. There will likely be monsters called Face Thieves who try to rip off characters' faces/masks to feed upon the characters' identities.

Just don't ask where the centaur came from. Some things are better left unanswered.

Seriously, though, that's a fantastic concept.

 

[Maxperson]

Not a discussion. You haven’t discussed what they mean by a tortle, what aspects of tortle they think will work well in the campaign, and so on. And of course because “tortle” is a hypothetical, no one who is posting here could give you a true answer.

The one true answer is that a tortle is what it's called when you chortle at a tort.

I have seen a few people give answers to why not a tortle (or whatever)? That come across as “because my world building is more important than making the game fun”, which I suspect the posts you are thinking of where responding to. “Because tortles don’t exist in this world” is not a good answer in a world of magic, because they could be mutant terrapins or from another world. “Because everyone hates tortles” is not a good answer, since being hated by NPCs is something players are willing to deal with (see 2nd edition drow), “it doesn’t fit the theme of my Conan campaign” is a reason - to play with different people, because the player who wants to play a tortle clearly isn’t interested in that theme. No themed game works if they players don’t buy into it.

You're oversimplifying those responses.

It's not because "my world building is more important than making the game fun." 1) there's generally more to it than that, and 2) It's not even remotely close to a given that without tortles the game isn't fun.

"Because everyone hates tortles" is similarly oversimplified. The degree of hate, how that hate plays into interactions with NPCs, and so on can make it highly disruptive to the campaign. So the reason isn't "everyone hates tortles," but rather, "tortles are overly disruptive to the game."

 

[TwoSix]

Then what's your counter? If it's the visual that's fine. It can be any kind of visual for the armor that you want.

Honestly, tortle is probably one of the worst examples, precisely because it has mechanics that have such a strong diegetic visual associated with it. It's a lot easier to reskin something like a triton or a hobgoblin, for examples of races that deviate from the "norm".

If the ask is "I want to use the tortle armor mechanic, but I'm not really attached to any sort of race aesthetic", I'd want to know what race they want to look like. They could use tortle race as the base, probably swap out features that are problematic like Shell Defense, Claws, and the swim speed for some of the race features of their actual appearance. In the fiction, describe the natural armor as some sort of fighting style or magical mutation, dependent on the race, class, and overall concept of the character.

 

[bedir than]

I don't see much of anything new

He went from saying he had no idea if he could make products that people want with the 2024 rules to getting enough positive feedback that he is.

It's odd to focus on a sentence or two while ignoring the entire theme of both posts.

 

[Zardnaar]

So the only thing that is not "ridiculous" is a tortle?

I was attempting to have a conversation. That's how conversations work, I come up with an idea, it you don't like it you come up with a counter-proposal. Except the counter proposal is always "it must be a tortle". Which isn't compromise in any way shape or form. The visual could easily change - I was attempting to be a bit humorous with that - but the idea was that they look human but can get the same benefit as tortle armor without gaining proficiency from their class.

If it's ridiculous what's the counter?

Compromise woukd be another aquatic race imho suitable to the campaign.

In my not Egypt I may allow a Crocodile person over a Tortle.

I was in effect using a 2nd phb though and was allowing 20+ races already so would prefer something more suitable. One of those 20 or better yet something more Egyptian or nearby (Dragonborn/kin, Minotaurs, Aasimar for example).

I've been running FR so most things are fine except some Eberron/ Lorwyn specific stuff.

Only hard bans atm are SilveryBarbs and flyers. Almost never relevant but did have one ask about Silvery Barbs. I use lots of spellcasters as NPC so if you did argue enough for SB I would use it on players.

Generally I think OHB allowed is reasonable. If youre doing something non standard advertise it as such eg Middle Earth Elf, Dwarf, Hunan, Halfling only.

 

[Epic Meepo]

Just don't ask where the centaur came from. Some things are better left unanswered.

Seriously, though, that's a fantastic concept.

Thanks.

(BTW, I'd work with the centaur player to determine how their transformation went down. My initial proposal would be: their character completed the ritual dressed as a horse-riding character, complete with horse, and in the process fused with their steed. The player could decide whether or not their character considered this to be an animal sacrifice and whether or not it bothered them if they did.)

 

[Bae'zel]

For the record I have nothing against Tortles. They were just shorthand / figurehead / variable for "player concept that the DM doesn't want in their campaign".

I like tortles and would definitely allow them in any "typical" fantasy campaign setting I was running.

"Tortle" in this thread is my shorthand for "why on Earth does the player stubbornly insist on being a half cat-person, half vampire ninja in my 1920's Call of Cthulhu campaign"?

 

[Maxperson]

How frequently? Because it’s not a behaviour I’ve ever witnessed. This sounds like a strawman to me. But as I said before, anyone who absolutely insists on anything, is not a reasonable person, and you should not be playing with than person full stop.

Here's @GobHag saying that if you don't want him to be a tortle, you shouldn't be playing 5e.

D&D General Post in thread 'The Monsters Know What They're Doing ... Are Unsure on 5e24'

Dec 31, 2025

So if you were playing BitD would you insist on playing a turtle guy? What if I really want to play a anthropomorphic piece of toast? My reason? Because it's toast man!

As a DM? Sure, I'll have to ask if they're The turtle guy or a turtle guy. but that's no more of a problem then someone asking they have robo arms. For toasts they have to have 2arms and 2 legs but same deal.

As a player? The reason I chose to be a tortle is because it's presented to me in the 1st place by the books, maybe if D&D never released them in I wouldn't have thought to become a turtle...

• GobHag

Here he's saying that it's good when the player just gets to decide and the DM has to accept it.

D&D General Post in thread 'The Monsters Know What They're Doing ... Are Unsure on 5e24'

Jan 1, 2026

So they wear a giant turtle shell and hat. Because any other answer goes back to the same old same old. It's not really about compromise, it's that the player gets to decide and the DM just has to accept it.

Yes, and that's good

• GobHag

Here's he's saying the player gets to decide and there should be no compromise. More than that, a DM who wants to compromise isn't deserving of respect.

D&D General Post in thread 'The Monsters Know What They're Doing ... Are Unsure on 5e24'

Jan 1, 2026

And that's good that players always get to decide species, or that the DM worked with the player to actually come up with a compromise?

The former of course. Do you think I'd respect someone that doesn't allow their player to wear a tophat or have natural green hair?

• GobHag

 

[Zardnaar]

For the record I have nothing against Tortles. They were just shorthand / figurehead / variable for "player concept that the DM doesn't want in their campaign".

I like tortles and would definitely allow them in any "typical" fantasy campaign setting I was running.

"Tortle" in this thread is my shorthand for "why on Earth does the player stubbornly insist on being a half cat-person, half vampire ninja in my 1920's Call of Cthulhu campaign"?

I had a turtle player last gane. Swi speed came up surprisingly often. Said player got swept away by water in Forge of Fury so Tortle.

With Heroes Feast he even went swimming in a sewer.

I have a Tortle soft spot (Mystara).