D&D General The Monsters Know What They're Doing ... Are Unsure on 5e24


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This is what we've done more than once, and each was successful in terms of maintaining setting tone and such. Like we did an all-human Diablo game where one PC was an elf, the trance rest was just treated as a paranoid warrior's conditioning. A loxodon's trunk simply signified this warrior's ambidextrous and quick draw abilities. I was an aasimar paladin, and the aasimar abilities were treated as if they were paladin abilities.

But that doesn't mean that I don't like restricted options to represent settings either. An upcoming game is going to use LotR 5e, and it'll be in the same world that our current game with an elven sorceress, reborn necromancer, warforged warlock and genasi druid exist in. The change, with accompanying restrictions, is to represent how far back in time we are going, basically chalcolithic. To a period where the same magic existed but access and control was very, very small. No wizard had figured out how to cast fireball yet, let alone improve the arcane formula enough to be reproducible by any wizard of low capability. The world is small because travel is limited, and that means that the dispersal of people is also limited, so even though the same species are largely present worldwide, that doesn't mean they're all available within the region we're playing in.

Reskinning and restricting are both valid tools, in my opinion, and which is better than the other will always depend on other factors. We reskinned Diablo because the restrictions felt burdensome, and we’re doing restrictions next because it feels freeing.
Those are all great examples of "I really wanted this $MechanicalThing can I use it and say xyz so it fits?". It's so much cleaner and less likely to be disruptively conflict brewing as the campaign goes on". Unfortunately the 5e trend has become one where players have been provided such a excess of powercreep as a feature and such an extreme failure to support GMs rather than sandbag them with hostility has been wotc's guilding light that now it's more commontgsn ever before to have players adamantly stick to their guns after a rejection and say things like"A DM's job is to facilitate the world for the players to run around in" or complain about any rejection whatsoever with outrage like "Its not the DM's personal private ground to run around in" as if paid gm as a service were the norm.

@Mecheon paid gm as a service is a thing yes, but it it very much not the norm and you have repeatedly voiced outrage while wheedling over why the gm is the one who always needs to make changes to the setting to accommodate a player desire that simply does not fit. The problem caused by wotc's misplaced endless focus on munchkin demand for MOAR POWAH alongside failure to support gms with anything but hostility is one of unreasonable player expectations and you've demonstrated that in spades.

Tetra you are getting incoherent with the hyperbole and examples while putting blame on unrelated things.

A player asking you to rewrite the setting to fit details about them in a way you don’t like is not the fault of the designers.
Specific choices and statements made that encourage an unreasonable expectation where "yes and" is the only perceived acceptable answer to that ask is. Beyond that I've mentioned one player ask as an example of players asking an obviously absurd character that deserved to be kicked down and introduced one example to show a discussion process. The example I introduced should have been so obviously inappropriate it should never have been defended while ignoring the example discussion process. All of the "what about" and "couldn't you just"and examples since have come from a couple individuals
 
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A DM's job is to facilitate the world for the players to run around in. They can provide alternatives, pick at the desired themes to help get the player's idea across.

It's not the DM's personal private ground to run around in. If they want one of those, they should get into novel writing, not dealing with the fact players can and will disrupt their setting.

In the early days of D&D there was an almost punishing emphasis on DM control of all aspects of game play, especially the campaign setting. I think this was an inheritance from D&D’s roots as a war game variant, and perhaps also a result of Gary Gygax’s own controlling tendencies - or at least that was the impression I got from reading his rulebooks and magazine columns, which seemed to constantly urge DMs to bring the hammer down on those unruly, insolent players.

Today the pendulum has swung far in the other direction, and some players seem to think that the DM is there to cater to their whims in a “customer is always right” fashion. What happens if two or more players’ stories clash with each other? Some DMs would indeed probably be happier writing fiction, instead of running reluctant players through a pre-plotted railroad based on deep cuts of homebrewed lore. On the other hand some players might be happier trying out for amateur theater productions, where they might have a chance to be the actual star of the show. I would like to see a bit more flexibility and willingness to compromise on all sides of the table.

If you want to blame anyone for D&D being a grab bag, then you probably want to look at TSR putting cowboy gods and Barsoom encounter tables into Greyhawk, to say nothing of having Gamera and Aura Battlers hanging out in space. Grab-bag stuff like that is in this game's lifeblood from the very beginning.

I think it is pretty interesting that both Blackmoor and Greyhawk, the two original D&D campaign settings, each include gonzo crossover stuff like steampunk war machines and crashed space ships full of robots, laser guns, and bug-eyed aliens. S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks seems to imply that mind flayers are ETs who arrived on Greyhawk in that wrecked spacecraft, but of course that possible origin story has been overwritten by decades of newer lore detailing them as Lovecraftian body snatchers.

Also like, let's not forget one of Dark Sun's more popular races is a direct Forgotten Realms import. Thri-kreen aren't Dark Sun originals.

The Thri-kreen actually go all the way back to the early 1980’s, several years before FR replaced Greyhawk as the default setting for 1E. I remember seeing them in one of the 1982 AD&D Monster Card sets, and the art from those cards was the first thing that piqued my interest in D&D back in grade school. Those monsters soon appeared in hardcover in the 1983 Monster Manual II, but Thri-kreen remained somewhat obscure as I do not remember them being used much anywhere else in 1E materials.

Wikipedia and the Great Library of Greyhawk confirm that the Thri-Kreen were created for the second Monster Card set by Paul Reiche III, a childhood friend of illustrator Erol Otus who contributed to a number of classic TSR products like X1 Isle of Dread, the “A” series of AD&D 1E modules, and the Gamma World game. He is probably better known for his later work on science fiction CRPGs like Starflight and the Star Control series, so it is interesting to learn that he is a Jack Vance fan who created a D&D species that could have easily fit into SF or ”sword & planet” settings.

In any event, all of this only reinforces your point that the Thri-kreen became an important part of Dark Sun from 2E onwards, even though they were not originally created for that setting or edition. There are probably other examples of imported content becoming essential to various D&D settings if anyone cares to look. I would rather see people make these legacy settings their own and just enjoy playing with them, rather than trying to fossilize them in amber by fighting battles over decades-old canon.
 

not a fan, I don’t need a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle (1984) dressed up as a Tortle (1986) in my game
People make that reference as if it's a gotcha. TMNT was a small indie comic when tortles first appeared. Their popularity exploded with the cartoon and toy line (1988). Further, tortles were a Mystara race and part of Basic until that line was ended. Outside of Red Steel and the ill fated Mystara AD&D line, they were practically forgotten alongside rakasta and lupins. They were Dragon Mag fodder or forgotten. And they couldn't even be monks until 3e at the earliest.

You are entitled to your opinion of course, but it's a hollow justification. Akin to saying that you don't need Aragorn (1954) dressed up as a ranger (1975) in your game.
 


not a fan, I don’t need a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle (1984) dressed up as a Tortle (1986) in my game
Fortunate for me as a early Millennial, TMNT will always be popular.

Just need D&D to do Transformers, Megatron, Soundwave, Shockwave, Devastator, or Starscream would be great dungeon fights
 




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