D&D General The Monsters Know What They're Doing ... Are Unsure on 5e24

[AlViking]

There is a major difference between making the final call for the good of group and players and making the final call to satisfy yourself.

Did I say otherwise? But if the disagreement is resolved by whoever shouts loudest how is that any better?

I've stated my preference. Obviously there should be a discussion about how things work - I may still make a call to keep things moving and we'll discuss it later. Life, and my time spent playing games, is too short to have long drawn out discussions.

The buck has to stop somewhere.

 

[dave2008]

Why are the only options:

• GM is always right
• The loudest jerk wins

I am sure you know those are not the only options. Additionally, just because someone makes an quick comment on an internet forum doesn't mean they think those are the only options!

 

[Remathilis]

Sure. If the DM is a self centered jerk, then I do play.

I can count very few times in 30+ years where that has happened.

And yet we've had multiple instances of DMs saying they'd tell players to hit the bricks if the players don't agree to everything the DM wants. The example of the player asking to play a tortle and getting shot down by the DM always ends in the DM's will be done and the player either acquiescing or leaving. Why not "Sure, you're a mad wizard's experiment" or "you're tribe comes from the deep southern shores and has had limited contact with other species" or "I don't have tortles, but maybe we can do something with lizardfolk which scratches a similar itch?"

A good manager knows how to win. A Great Manager knows when to lose.

 

[tetrasodium]

OK. So, I'll take the burden of proof that 5e caters to videogamey overpowered munchkin builds.

It's not surprising how many of the "I disagree and quit reading the post" crowd are suddenly complaining that you aren't doing enough to prove your point to people where openly admit they did not bother reading through posts they chose to respond to. I'll add to this though because just last night Daddy rolled a one did a nearly two hour video that gives a deep dive into the mechanics play loops and gaming cultures of the time through editions all the way from the start. In it he repeatedly highlights elements that conflicted with today's video game design mentality along with how those were changed to exclusively cater towards the video game style approach as editions marched upto 5e.

Here is said video and the focus on mechanics throughout the video quite heavily dismiss the complaints about proving the point with opinion while being too extensive to complain about format when it regularly shows passages from the books themselves

 

[mamba]

A GM who understands the mechanics of the game should have a very good idea of how strong a monster is.
I've seen several D&D YouTuber types express issues with using CR.

CR is not perfect, but it is a better measure of relative monster strength than not having anything at all (other than the stats themselves).

The one issue is the ‘formula’ that says what CR is challenging for a party of a certain level, that needed tweaking / underestimated what a higher level party can actually handle

 

[TiQuinn]

And yet we've had multiple instances of DMs saying they'd tell players to hit the bricks if the players don't agree to everything the DM wants. The example of the player asking to play a tortle and getting shot down by the DM always ends in the DM's will be done and the player either acquiescing or leaving. Why not "Sure, you're a mad wizard's experiment" or "you're tribe comes from the deep southern shores and has had limited contact with other species" or "I don't have tortles, but maybe we can do something with lizardfolk which scratches a similar itch?"

A good manager knows how to win. A Great Manager knows when to lose.

Yeah, this right here. It’s a game. That’s all it is. It’s not high art. It is not some rigid story built only to tell one particular story or theme. That’s the space of other media and ignores the advantages of TTRPGs to be fluid in the story that emerges from the game.

 

[mamba]

OK. So, I'll take the burden of proof that 5e caters to videogamey overpowered munchkin builds.

all that shows is that builds are now more complex, the 1e video of this would have been 5 seconds of someone saying ‘obviously play a mage’

 

[Remathilis]

all that shows is that builds are now more complex, the 1e video of this would have been 5 seconds of someone saying ‘obviously play a mage’

The thirty second version would be "start as a fighter, then dual class into mage so that you can be a mage with lots of hp and use weapons and armor"

 

[Scribe]

"Look Timmy, everyone else seems to be able to play within the same framework, why do you have to be unique?"

 

[Remathilis]

"Look Timmy, everyone else seems to be able to play within the same framework, why do you have to be unique?"

"Look mommy, I don't use dragonborn. I'm special!"