D&D General The Monsters Know What They're Doing ... Are Unsure on 5e24

If as the DM, me playing a tortle would just ruin your fun . . . you're probably not the DM for me.
If you as a player aren't willing to adhere to a few small house rules like following a curated list of species you're probably not a player for my table either.

Which is fine. We all play for different reasons. But I don't understand why you have a hard time accepting that it matters to some DMs. I want a limited number of intelligent humanoids running around. It has nothing to do with tortles per se, I don't have dragonborn or tieflings either. I have a vision for the world I and dozens of players have built and enjoyed over the years. That vision isn't a kitchen sink.

You don't have to like it. You don't even really have to understand. It would just be nice if people could accept it. We're just trying to be the best DMs we can be for our enjoyment and the enjoyment of the players.
 

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I don't see why you assume a well thought out setting means the characters can have no impact on the world. Nor do you have to have collaborative world building to have autonomy even if that's your preference.
Speaking for myself, it's because it sounds--consistently--like your fun is in having the world be precisely the thing you want it to be and never anything else. That's what looks like a lack of interest in player autonomy. Since your fun comes first, then anyone else's after that. It's a matter of priorities, and you've made quite clear that where fun is concerned, yours comes first, because you are GM. If that's not the case, then I don't understand why you have expressed your position as you have, because...I just can't see any other way of describing it than the straightforward, "If I don't get all of the things I find fun, I won't enjoy the game, so I won't run it, and thus my fun must always come first."

Hence why I said some of the things I said before. Or, if you prefer, a pithy phrasing of what I see my own position as: "Sometimes, player fun comes first, even if it isn't what I find (most) fun. Sometimes, my fun comes first, even if it isn't what the players find (most) fun." Give and take. I don't see much (if any) give in your position--so it looks like the GM asking the players to never do anything but give.

A homebrew world can give characters more autonomy in my experience. Nobody's going to say you can't blow up my version of The Yawning Portal because it's such an iconic location that's required for future scenarios for example.
I'd say it's entirely side-grade, not upgrade, in terms of autonomy (agency, whatever one wishes to call it).

Because the huge benefit of a setting written by someone else? The GM's connection is necessarily secondhand. It's not the GM's darling, it's someone else's darling, the GM just happens to like it enough to be comfortable running it. If the GM doesn't care about potentially locking out future adventure paths (which, in my experience, that's rare--and the GM who does care will usually tell their players and work something out), the detachment can mean

The best (most direct and efficient) way for homebrew settings to avoid the "GM's darling" problem (or, if you prefer, the "World-as-GMPC" problem) very much is collaborative development. Doesn't have to be top-to-bottom collaborative either. Just enough flexibility that the GM is willing to happily accept constructive outside ideas. (Non-constructive ideas would be, for example, rude, dull, adversarial, too difficult to manage/implement, or just generally tacky or tawdry.)

I will note, "best" doesn't mean "only". I completely believe that it is possible for any GM to avoid this problem with effort. I just think it will be varying degrees of harder. Unfortunately, it's especially tough for worlds that exist over a very long period of time. The problem gets harder, not easier, as more and more facts become well-established. That's why, even when I do all the worldbuilding myself, I always consciously and intentionally leave "ʜɪᴄ ꜱᴠɴᴛ ʟᴇᴏɴᴇꜱ" (or "...ᴅʀᴀᴄᴏɴᴇꜱ", if you prefer, but only one globe has that specific phrasing) places in any world I work on/with. As long as I always leave room for doubt, for my knowledge to be incomplete, I'm always at least somewhat like the players, genuinely discovering the setting to some degree, not just revealing it.
 

I'd go with Redwall before Zootopia. :P
Indeed, since it plays it straight (rather than comedy hiding serious allegory, which is harder), although the obvious one is Narnia.

But I have no problem with anthropomorphic animals in long term campaigns. My current campaign has two, along with a warforged and a gith (who replaced a zombie) and has been running for around two years.

Frankly, they are less alien than the average elf, with their hundreds of years lifespan.

Addendum: it’s a lot easier to roleplay alien if your character is an anthropomorphic cat, at least if you are familiar with cats. No one has a pet elf to use as a model for personality traits.
 
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Indeed, since it plays it straight (rather than comedy hiding serious allegory), although the obvious one is Narnia.

But I have no problem with anthropomorphic animals in long term campaigns. My current campaign has two, along with a warforged and a gith (who replaced a zombie) and has been running for around two years.

Frankly, they are less alien than the average elf, with their hundreds of years lifespan.
Yeah, there's a LOT of grandfather clauses when it comes to D&D races.

Like all three of the classic non-human races have Weirdness about them that should make them pretty alien. Dwarves can live underground their whole lives, which can be multiple centuries long (200-300 years). Elves can live to be over 700 years old--meaning an elf could've been born a full century before Shakespeare...and still have another 150 years of life left in them. If we treat 700 as the Elf equivalent of 100, that is something a healthy person might reach but might not, then they would be roughly the equivalent of an 80-year-old human. Even halflings live about 50% longer than humans--can you imagine how much of an impact that would make, if most people lived to be in their early-to-mid second century of life?
 

Yeah, there's a LOT of grandfather clauses when it comes to D&D races.

Like all three of the classic non-human races have Weirdness about them that should make them pretty alien. Dwarves can live underground their whole lives, which can be multiple centuries long (200-300 years). Elves can live to be over 700 years old--meaning an elf could've been born a full century before Shakespeare...and still have another 150 years of life left in them. If we treat 700 as the Elf equivalent of 100, that is something a healthy person might reach but might not, then they would be roughly the equivalent of an 80-year-old human. Even halflings live about 50% longer than humans--can you imagine how much of an impact that would make, if most people lived to be in their early-to-mid second century of life?

They lived longer in older editions. The old ones could potentially remember Rome. At its height.

700 years the oldest ones coukd potentially remember Eastern Roman Empire.
 


That's an excellent observation.
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They lived longer in older editions. The old ones could potentially remember Rome. At its height.

700 years the oldest ones coukd potentially remember Eastern Roman Empire.
Sure. I was using the new(ish, IIRC the 700-year thing was first stated in 3e) numbers, because even with these "reduced" lifespans, it's still very significant.
 

In this case the adventure hook was literally the setting!

That sounds like a really fun campaign. I totally would have made a miniature giant space tortle for my PC.
The party consists of an Insect Rogue (Thri-Kreen), a Mothman Druid / Cleric (I forget the actual race it was based on right now), a giant black male chicken (arakocra reflavored) barabarian, a wolfman ranger (Shifter) and a dwarf wizard. A Giant minature space Tortle would totally fit. We already encounterd Giff (and the players mentioned Giff Ninjas, so those are now part of the setting, too!), a Spelljammer Ship captained by a Djinn and a sentient flying smothering rug as first mate, Flumphs, Vampirates, Space Clowns, a Sun Dragon ...
Scavvers (one even ate the Wizard!), Space Whales, giant Space Jellyfishs, Magic Mushrooms that maybe could power a Gnome-Rocket Drive ... and my players haven't even left the Asteroid Field yet, even though they got their Spelljammer capable Ship (salvaged one).

To be fair, I usually let my players create what character they want to create - because of the start of the campaign I just disallowed Clerics and Warlocks at level 1, because the characters are basically newborns (in adult bodies with knowledge of their class and how to talk and stuff, just not their past) and wouldn't have had the chance yet to swear fealty to a deity or patron.
 

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