The Moral of the Story Is....Maybe there's such a thing as (D&D being) too big

[gamerprinter]

I mean, but it's never gone any other way lol. And 99%? By what methodology are you measuring that? If it's terms of ownership of capital it's more like 30-40% isn't. I feel you're conflating mere exchange-based systems with capitalism specifically, which is not the same thing. Having money as a form of exchange does not equal capitalism.

In the last 50 years or so where litigation becomes more and more a threat to small businesses, almost everybody is becoming an LLC just for the legal protections, but 50 years ago, almost every business was a partnership or sole proprietor, only larger concerns were corporations. Corporations always existed, but they were an outlier to the larger population of businesses. Not so much today, but still not full corporations. Most businesses are still Mom and Pop.

 

[Charlaquin]

That's actually syndicalism more than socialism, but they're connected concepts. You can theoretically have syndicalism without most of what we regard as socialism though. To be fair syndicalism is largely forgotten today (booo!).

Yeah, fair point.

 

[Charlaquin]

I don't see it as natural at all, just one way it can go. While there are many LLCs, the majority of businesses in the world are small family businesses, not what I consider the corporate environment. The truly big A type corporations are very few, but since they make all the money they get all the Capitalist attention. To me the attention should be placed on the 99% that aren't that kind of corporation, and what truly defines capitalism - to my perspective.

But because the few corporations make all the money, they will eventually drive the small businesses out of business. We are seeing it happen, that’s why it’s called late-stage capitalism. We’re in the endgame, where the wealth has become so consolidated in the hands of a few corporations that the competition capitalism is supposed to be founded on is becoming impossible.

 

[Charlaquin]

In the last 50 years or so where litigation becomes more and more a threat to small businesses, almost everybody is becoming an LLC just for the legal protections, but 50 years ago, almost every business was a partnership or sole proprietor, only larger concerns were corporations. Corporations always existed, but they were an outlier to the larger population of businesses. Not so much today, but still not full corporations. Most businesses are still Mom and Pop.

Right. Because we’ve entered the late stage.

 

[Horwath]

I believe that it is time for new RPG,

we'll call it: "Donjons and Draconites"

with ORC license ofc.

 

[gamerprinter]

But because the few corporations make all the money, they will eventually drive the small businesses out of business. We are seeing it happen, that’s why it’s called late-stage capitalism. We’re in the endgame, where the wealth has become so consolidated in the hands of a few corporations that the competition capitalism is supposed to be founded on is becoming impossible.

I'm not going out of business, in fact I'm growing and have been doing this for 15 years. I'm a one person company, though I publish for two authors besides myself, and have used contractors in the past, but I mostly do all the work myself. Nobody is driving me out of business. While it was 14 years ago, WotC contacted my printing company which I ran at the time about becoming a print-on-demand servicer for Star Wars maps, but then it turned out that the Lucas License prevented that. What I'm saying as since the beginning of my publishing/cartography business I've done work for Paizo, Legendary Games, almost WotC, E.N. Publishing, Kobold Press, Gygax magazine and dozens of other small publishers. I even created all the multi-player maps for Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare Strategy Guide - so all the biggest corporations in our general industry have sought out my business at one time or another. They aren't driving me out, they are inviting me in. Maybe you can broad brush paint the majority of small business, but that brush isn't anywhere near me. I'm not a big company, but I am more successful all the time. Businesses large and small must adapt all the time, if you cannot adapt, you're doomed to fail. Those failed businesses doomed themselves.

 

[TheSword]

I'm not going out of business, in fact I'm growing and have been doing this for 15 years. I'm a one person company, though I publish for two authors besides myself, and have used contractors in the past, but I mostly do all the work myself. Nobody is driving me out of business. While it was 14 years ago, WotC contacted my printing company which I ran at the time about becoming a print-on-demand servicer for Star Wars maps, but then it turned out that the Lucas License prevented that. What I'm saying as since the beginning of my publishing/cartography business I've done work for Paizo, Legendary Games, almost WotC, E.N. Publishing, Kobold Press and dozens of other small publishers. I even created all the multi-player maps for Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare Strategy Guide - so all the biggest corporations in our general industry have sought out my business at one time or another. They aren't driving me out, they are inviting me in. Maybe you can broad brush paint the majority of small business, but that brush isn't anywhere near me. I'm not a big company, but I am more successful all the time. Businesses large and small must adapt all the time, if you cannot adapt, you're doomed to fail. Those failed businesses doomed themselves.

Finally some sense on the matter… and experience! Rather than stereotypes and sour grapes.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I guess I'll spell it out for you. Saying "capitalism destroys everyhing" is intellectually lazy and adds absolutely nothing to the converation. It doesn't provide any insight into the current situation or help make sense of anything. It's cheap. And you're better than that.

Mod Note:

Honestly, discussing the virtues and evils of capitalism only adds volat to this current discussion. So let’s not.

Edit: ditto the political angles.

 

[Aldarc]

I remember a year or two ago, when we were all basking in the glow of D&D's unparalleled popularity. Some of us remember the Golden Age of the early 80s, when D&D experienced a similar-in-kind cultural blossoming, though in an era before the internet, and probably to a smaller degree, even adjusting for population increase (at the least, it is more international now, even if the overall player numbers relative to population aren't larger).

I vaguely remember little snippets of conversation, regarding why people were happy about D&D's popularity - anything from feeling less ghettoized to the potential benefits that would be reaped: movies, tv shows, and simply more D&D all around.

What I don't remember is talk about the potential downside. I'm sure it was discussed somewhere, but I think with OGLGate, we're experiencing it big-time. Increased popularity = more money = corporate interest increases = a game, formerly and mostly run by gamers for gamers becomes a commodity to be traded and sold; a profit-generating product for the rich to get richer on.

It was talked about here. The people who talked about it were shouted down and laughed at.

Hello. As @overgeeked said, there have been some of us (e.g., Campbell, overgeeked, hawkeyefan, and more) discussing the potential pitfalls of having a 800 lb. gorilla dominate the market and its effects on 3pp and non-D&D games for years now.

I was told about WotC's market dominance that "a rising tide lifts all boats." It's a lovely-sounding aphorism, to which other critics of the saying have also noted that "the rising tide will lift some boats, but others will run aground" and "the rising tide just seems to lift yachts." As I said then, it seems like blind faith in trickle-down economics hiding behind an aphorism.

But I will fully admit that a lot of these discussions were perceived as being on the fringes of the hobby: i.e., these fringe discussions were just fans of other non-D&D games who were bitter and jealous of 5e D&D's popularity.

Even now, is there promotion of other products on this forum? No, its just all 5e OGL threads lul.

Usually the threads promoting other TTRPGs are in the General Subforum. There have been a few threads in the 5e Forum where people talked about alternatives. I have been contemplating creating a thread where people can constructively talk about the strengths and weaknesses of other systems for people who like 5e D&D. But I have also been worried whether such a thread would step on the toes of @Tales and Chronicles's thread here for discussing non-OGL alternatives to 5e.

 

[Charlaquin]

I'm not going out of business, in fact I'm growing and have been doing this for 15 years. I'm a one person company, though I publish for two authors besides myself, and have used contractors in the past, but I mostly do all the work myself. Nobody is driving me out of business. While it was 14 years ago, WotC contacted my printing company which I ran at the time about becoming a print-on-demand servicer for Star Wars maps, but then it turned out that the Lucas License prevented that. What I'm saying as since the beginning of my publishing/cartography business I've done work for Paizo, Legendary Games, almost WotC, E.N. Publishing, Kobold Press, Gygax magazine and dozens of other small publishers. I even created all the multi-player maps for Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare Strategy Guide - so all the biggest corporations in our general industry have sought out my business at one time or another. They aren't driving me out, they are inviting me in. Maybe you can broad brush paint the majority of small business, but that brush isn't anywhere near me. I'm not a big company, but I am more successful all the time. Businesses large and small must adapt all the time, if you cannot adapt, you're doomed to fail. Those failed businesses doomed themselves.

Obviously not every single small business is struggling right now. It’s still the trajectory of the system for the wealth to become consolidated into fewer and fewer large corporations’ hands. Your personal anecdote does not negate that observable trend.