The more I play it the more it shines.

[Storminator]

How have you got around the problems of skill challenges Gundark? I have hesitated to run a game becuase my group really wants skill challenges and it appears that the maths for this section of the rules is broken.

Look at the DCs in the challenge table. If you see that first entry, and assume that it applies to level 1 challenges, you get all the math problems Stalker0 has outlined in gory detail. The moderate challenge is pretty rough.

But if you read that 1st entry as a 3rd level challenge it is very tractable. Using Easy DCs drops the challenge one level... to level 2. Knock off one required success to get it to level 1.

My 1st level PCs smoked the Level 2 Complexity 1 challenge without any optimization.

No fixes required.

PS

 

[Storminator]

I think the same applies to the concerns about the layout and look of the books.

IME, having the books in hand, even with the lame index, it's generally very easy to find what you're looking for as it tends to stand out or be in a logical order.

You've had to look things up?

PS

 

[DangerAbe]

I've been trying to get some people together to run a few tests. I can see where there is a lot to like about the system but it seems very dependent on miniatures and battle maps - something which is an anathema to my and my groups.

I'm not concerned about non-combat encounters or anything except how the games runs in a non-dungeon, no maps, no minis, fast paced, swashbuckling-like fights (specific, I know).

Oh, if you don't like minis and battlemaps then you are better off playing some other system. 4e is even more about battlemaps than 3e was. My group enjoys it; but I understand that it's not everybody's cup of tea.

 

[Steely Dan]

You've had to look things up?

Exactly – this says a lot.

 

[helium3]

??

Contrary to popular opinion, 4E does have a lot of little niggly rules that need to be remembered.

Fur example. Have you been adding the +2 to your defense scores that you get until the end of your next turn from using your second wind?

We didn't until one of the players told everyone about doing it at the game day event. Even then, he told us the duration was until the end of the encounter rather than the end of your next turn.

So yeah. There's lot's of stuff that needs to be looked up.

 

[Ydars]

Thanks Storminator; your suggestion looks like a good fix for low level. Do you know if it scales with increasing complexity?

 

[Nightchilde-2]

How have you got around the problems of skill challenges Gundark? I have hesitated to run a game becuase my group really wants skill challenges and it appears that the maths for this section of the rules is broken.

In practice, I haven't seen the issues people are griping about in regards to skill challenges. I pretty much started my campaign off with a social skill challenge, and it was no problem.

Just like saving thows being "too easy to make." Yeah, if you look at statistics, this is true. Once the dice start rolling, I've found the opposite to be true.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

It's more like a lot of stuff that needs to be remembered. It they had left skills a little more flexible and some background non combat skills, it'd be perfect but incomplete.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

??

Contrary to popular opinion, 4E does have a lot of little niggly rules that need to be remembered.

Fur example. Have you been adding the +2 to your defense scores that you get until the end of your next turn from using your second wind?

We didn't until one of the players told everyone about doing it at the game day event. Even then, he told us the duration was until the end of the encounter rather than the end of your next turn.

So yeah. There's lot's of stuff that needs to be looked up.

Though this is a pretty... static example. What is a lot more important is to read up on your powers! In my group, the Paladin player did not get the limitations of his Divine Challenge until someone explained it to him. He simply stopped reading to early. Well, this guy is prone to misreading powers and abilities anyway, so I guess we'll have to keep watching him anyway.

 

[Storminator]

??

Contrary to popular opinion, 4E does have a lot of little niggly rules that need to be remembered.

Fur example. Have you been adding the +2 to your defense scores that you get until the end of your next turn from using your second wind?

We didn't until one of the players told everyone about doing it at the game day event. Even then, he told us the duration was until the end of the encounter rather than the end of your next turn.

So yeah. There's lot's of stuff that needs to be looked up.

Since I made a power card for SW, and it includes that bit of text, I did remember that. In fact, making the power cards means the full text of each one is right there during play, and that's what's relevant.

I would have to look up Rituals if they came up, but they haven't so far.

PS