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Ryujin

Legend
I would be tempted to just make it on one damage roll per round.... the magic item throbs with power... and yes something for Warlocks ... how about chains of might that you wrap around your forearms and help out the locks.

I'd just be happy with a feat that allows me to bump the dice from my Warlock's Curse, like the Ranger does his Hunter's Quarry. An item would be nice, but the pluses I get to basic ranged attacks (Eldritch Blast) from Bracers of the Perfect Shot is plenty.
 


Ryujin

Legend
Or the backstabber feat for the rogue. Yeah, the warlock's left in the cold on extra damage.

Mind you things have improved somewhat since I picked up Dark Pact as a dual, then also took Cursebite and Cursegrind. Coupled with a Weapon of Summer as an implement, for an additional 1d8 fire on a hit, my DPR has risen significantly. That likely means the Weapon of Summer would be on the chopping block for many here :lol:
 

KarinsDad

Adventurer
That likely means the Weapon of Summer would be on the chopping block for many here :lol:

Well, it already is for people who do not use Dungeon Magazine items. ;)

One of the problems with 4E is the mid to high level math. Virtually the only way to take out foes is to damage them and higher level foe hit points increase faster than PCs damage increases, so the only "good items" for many players tend to be items that increase damage.

Isn't that why you acquired that item???
 

keterys

First Post
People keep saying that, and I keep wondering what they mean by 'mid to high level', since I haven't run into it yet. I've actually seen things speed up slightly so far.

Only played/run up to 14th level though.
 

abyssaldeath

First Post
I would be tempted to just make it on one damage roll per round.... the magic item throbs with power... and yes something for Warlocks ... how about chains of might that you wrap around your forearms and help out the locks.

I would do once per power if I were to change it. That way you get to keep the bonus when you nova and it will also make the Quickhit Bracers more appealing to Rangers.
 

Ryujin

Legend
Well, it already is for people who do not use Dungeon Magazine items. ;)

One of the problems with 4E is the mid to high level math. Virtually the only way to take out foes is to damage them and higher level foe hit points increase faster than PCs damage increases, so the only "good items" for many players tend to be items that increase damage.

Isn't that why you acquired that item???

It's certainly one of the reasons, but so was the once-per-day +4 to all defences. That has saved my bacon in several encounters already, when I was being singled out.
 

Saeviomagy

Adventurer
Looking at the Character Builder arm slot items, it is my opinion that this is exactly the problem. Iron Armbands of Power are a level 6 item. There is nothing else at that level, or within several levels above it, that offer ANYTHING remotely as obviously beneficial to a striker...

...So my conclusion isn't that Iron Armbands of Power are overpowered, or that I need to ban them because they are too common, my conclusion is that the armslot items for strikers simply suck big time.
Only when compared with the iron armbands of power (and possibly one or two other things).

The simple fact of the matter is that the balance among armbands was fine until AV came out and IAoP blew the curve.

But naturally it's every other item in the game that's the problem, not the IAoP...
 

Akaiku

First Post
But naturally it's every other item in the game that's the problem, not the IAoP...

What non shield magic arm slot item would you think to actually put on a wish list for a melee striker? Without the IAoP, you are not shorting yourself an useful slot by taking random things that occasionally do something. Then it's just "Well, is this worthwhile or should I disenchant it for 1/5th its value towards something I feel I actually NEED"
 

abyssaldeath

First Post
Only when compared with the iron armbands of power (and possibly one or two other things).

The simple fact of the matter is that the balance among armbands was fine until AV came out and IAoP blew the curve.

But naturally it's every other item in the game that's the problem, not the IAoP...
Until AV came out there were 3 armbands/bracers. I hardly call that an indication of balance. What it was was a complete lack of options.
 

Tequila Sunrise

Adventurer
I try not to ban stuff unless it proves fundamentally unusable in play, or it's plainly wrong to my way of thinking. So I haven't banned any armbands or bloodclaw weapons because I haven't yet seen them in play, but I do ban all feats that grant unconditional attack/defense bonuses, including armor spec, because they're a part of the PC stat lag/feat tax problem that rubs me the wrong way.
 

keterys

First Post
What non shield magic arm slot item would you think to actually put on a wish list for a melee striker? Without the IAoP, you are not shorting yourself an useful slot by taking random things that occasionally do something. Then it's just "Well, is this worthwhile or should I disenchant it for 1/5th its value towards something I feel I actually NEED"

Going through the 1st-8th bracers that might be options if IAoP were off the table, this is probably my first gut feelings for some of my characters - Desirable (I'd ask for it from the group), Useful (I'd take it but would let someone else claim them first), Questionable (just as soon sell or leave as party treasure):

Desirable:
Flame Bracers
Executioner's Bracers
Bracers of Mighty Striking (Certain builds/parties)
Bracers of the Perfect Shot (Ditto)
Couters of Second Chances
Quickhit Braces
Bracers of Brachiation
Warded Vambraces
Bracers of Rejuvenation

Useful
Bracers of Enforced Regret
Phylactery of Action
Bloodthirst Bracers
Counterstrike Guards
Feyleaf Vambraces
Tangler
Bracers of Mental Might
Bracers of Tactical Blows
Razor Bracers
Bracers of Escape
Bracers of Defense
Bracers of Bold Maneuvering
Mindiron Vambraces
Charm Bracelet

Questionable / Specialized
Lunia's Bracelet
Breach Bracers
Shimmering Light
Cold Iron Bracers
Skull Bracers

I do find it amusing that the same book that had IAoP contained an item of the same level that gave +1d6 with OAs and one that 1/day gave +1d10 as a minor and hopefully you hit.

It's also interesting to look at competing level 6 items. The horned helm is great for barbarians, though rogues, rangers, avengers, and monks probably don't care. After that, we're looking at a couple different gloves that give a little bit of damage, a solitaire that lets you save on a crit, a couple of boots that don't help with damage at all but seem solid, a pretty kickass flute if you've got the ability to draw, free hand it, put it away each encounter... probably the best damage option among all secondary slots is the Luckbender Gloves which give you about +2-4 damage _per encounter_.

So please don't restrict comparisons to just the arms slot. Remember these are taken above competing secondary items, of all types, up through 11th level.
 

brassbaboon

First Post
Going through the 1st-8th bracers that might be options if IAoP were off the table, this is probably my first gut feelings for some of my characters - Desirable (I'd ask for it from the group), Useful (I'd take it but would let someone else claim them first), Questionable (just as soon sell or leave as party treasure):

Desirable:
Flame Bracers
Executioner's Bracers
Bracers of Mighty Striking (Certain builds/parties)
Bracers of the Perfect Shot (Ditto)
Couters of Second Chances
Quickhit Braces
Bracers of Brachiation
Warded Vambraces
Bracers of Rejuvenation

Useful
Bracers of Enforced Regret
Phylactery of Action
Bloodthirst Bracers
Counterstrike Guards
Feyleaf Vambraces
Tangler
Bracers of Mental Might
Bracers of Tactical Blows
Razor Bracers
Bracers of Escape
Bracers of Defense
Bracers of Bold Maneuvering
Mindiron Vambraces
Charm Bracelet

Questionable / Specialized
Lunia's Bracelet
Breach Bracers
Shimmering Light
Cold Iron Bracers
Skull Bracers

I do find it amusing that the same book that had IAoP contained an item of the same level that gave +1d6 with OAs and one that 1/day gave +1d10 as a minor and hopefully you hit.

It's also interesting to look at competing level 6 items. The horned helm is great for barbarians, though rogues, rangers, avengers, and monks probably don't care. After that, we're looking at a couple different gloves that give a little bit of damage, a solitaire that lets you save on a crit, a couple of boots that don't help with damage at all but seem solid, a pretty kickass flute if you've got the ability to draw, free hand it, put it away each encounter... probably the best damage option among all secondary slots is the Luckbender Gloves which give you about +2-4 damage _per encounter_.

So please don't restrict comparisons to just the arms slot. Remember these are taken above competing secondary items, of all types, up through 11th level.

LOL, sure, if by "desirable" you mean "as opposed to wearing nothing at all on my arms" and if by "useful" you mean "occasionally does something remotely arguably beneficial" and if by "questionable" you mean "not really better than nothing at all."

I mean you seriously want to argue that an eighth level ranger would look at "Bracers of enforced regret" and say "I just GOTTA have those!" Or the Bracers of Mighty Striking "because I'm doing melee basic attacks ALL THE TIME."

Here are the "Flame bracers" you list as "desirable". For 520 gold I get to add a +1d6 to one attack IF I HIT before the end of my next turn ONCE PER DAY! If that's what you think merits "desirable" status, I think you just won the argument for your opponents. For that same 520 gold I'd be much more inclined to buy five "frozen whetstones" to give me a +2 cold damage to ALL ATTACKS for the ENTIRE ENCOUNTER for five encounters. I figure in five encounters I can make back the 500 gold and buy five more.

I suppose that pretty much makes the frozen whetstones unbalanced too though...
 
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Dr_Ruminahui

First Post
Well, Bracers of Mental Might were a lot more useful pre-PH2 (which brought Melee training, which with a feet largely makes BoMM redundant), at least with a Warlord with commanders strike in the party.

I gave a set of them to my party, and the charisma palladin has enjoyed them greatly, especially in conjunction with his vanguard spear (which gives bonuses to charges, which until divine power were all basic melee attacks for a chaladin) or his brother the warlord bossing him around by saying "hit it again".

Even post PH2, the player wants to keep them around to be able to use his charisma for the odd athletics check that may come up.

Now, I don't do wish lists and my players really aren't optimizers, but bracers of mental might at least have value for some character/party builds.
 
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keterys

First Post
LOL, sure, if by "desirable" you mean "as opposed to wearing nothing at all on my arms" and if by "useful" you mean "occasionally does something remotely arguably beneficial" and if by "questionable" you mean "not really better than nothing at all."

Psst. 4E items aren't intended to be big game changers. Evidence: 98% of the items.

So, yes, in comparison to having nothing, they sure seem quite desirable.

I mean you seriously want to argue that an eighth level ranger would look at "Bracers of enforced regret" and say "I just GOTTA have those!" Or the Bracers of Mighty Striking "because I'm doing melee basic attacks ALL THE TIME."
They're level 2 items. I'd hope a level 1 ranger was looking at them and going 'Hey, cool, that's a big improvement over the nothing I'm wearing. Go ahead, mark me, I'll only get stronger, or My charges and OAs are more effective, and oh, hey, hi Mr. Warlord with Commander's Strike and Hammer and Anvil.'

Here are the "Flame bracers" you list as "desirable". For 520 gold I get to add a +1d6 to one attack IF I HIT before the end of my next turn ONCE PER DAY! If that's what you think merits "desirable" status, I think you just won the argument for your opponents.
You may have missed this line:
Property: When you score a critical hit with a melee attack, deal an extra 1d6 fire damage.
Which was the primary reason I put it in desirable.

Many rangers and dagger masters like dealing more damage on crits. It's a moderate bonus that doesn't require any setup, stacks with everything, adds straight to DPS. It isn't a gigantic difference, but it's not supposed to.
 
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keterys

First Post
Actually this item can be used once per day. Look at the Whetstone entry in Adventurer's Vault. Try to look at the rules first before you make wrong assumptions.

Also 5 levels higher and a consumable item, which means that over the course of even a single level it would cost more gold, require a minor action every combat (minor actions often being useful to rangers at the beginnings of combat), only applies to one weapon, etc. It's certainly a more effective option if you ignore those restrictions however.

Also stacks with a bracer item, and if you don't have IAoP to hedge out all competition in every secondary slot, they're still looking pretty darn good compared to nothing.
 

Bayuer

First Post
@keterys
Well, you make me think about banning all items that give straight dmg bonus (Armbands, Bracers of Archery - even those who add +2 with basic attacks only, Staff or Ruin - wizard shouldn't have such a boost to they area powers!, Radiant Weapon). Did I miss something?
 

brassbaboon

First Post
Actually this item can be used once per day. Look at the Whetstone entry in Adventurer's Vault. Try to look at the rules first before you make wrong assumptions.

Ah, well, good point, but I'd still take a 1/day item that gave me a +2 damage for an entire encounter over a daily item that gave me a +1d6 if I manage to hit by the end of my next turn. So yeah, I didn't fully understand how they worked, but now that I do fully understand, they're still miles above the armslot item I was comparing them to.
 

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