D&D (2024) The Problem with Healing Powercreep

[Bacon Bits]

Modern D&D loves it's HP bloat all around. Why they went that direction I'll never know.

Because modifiers reduce how swingy the damage dice are.

If you're doing 1d8 damage and the opponent has 21 hp, then it takes between 3 and 21 hits to defeat the opponent.

If you're doing 1d8+5 damage and the opponent has 43 hp then it takes between 4 and 8 hits to defeat the opponent.

 

[DarkCrisis]

Because modifiers reduce how swingy the damage dice are.

If you're doing 1d8 damage and the opponent has 21 hp, then it takes between 3 and 21 hits to defeat the opponent.

If you're doing 1d8+5 damage and the opponent has 43 hp then it takes between 4 and 8 hits to defeat the opponent.

Have less modifiers

 

[jmartkdr2]

i would make it harder to revive people, if it's a chore to revive them then you'd be incentivised to not let them go down in the first place, make it so you can't get people up just from giving them a positive hitpoint total, i'd implement a 1st or cantrip level spell something like:

REVITALISE
Cantrip - Necromancy.
Range - 15ft.
Components - V, S, M (a pinch of diamond dust).
Duration - 1 round.
You target one creature that is within range when you begin casting that is either dying or stable but unconcious and begin to rouse them to conciousness, at the start of your next turn if the casting has not been disrupted the target awakens and gains 1 HP if they don't already have any, if you or the target take any damage while this spell is being cast you must make a concentration saving throw to prevent the casting being disrupted. (this spell doesn't use the concentration slot despite concentration checks needing to be made)

i would combine this with mild diminishing returns for healing overly injured targets:
HP 100%-50% full healing dice + casting mod.
HP 50%-25% remove 1 healing die + casting mod.
HP 25%-<0% remove 1 healing die.

all of this means that you don't want your characters to be getting down into the red or even getting close to it.

If you don’t combine this with effective in-combat healing (which is not a thing in the 2014 rules) then you’ve just made combat swingier and riskier without increasing challenge (because challenge implies that your choices or skills will determine success.)

If you need 2-6 actions worth of healing to counter 1action’s worth of damage, you need a party of a fighter, rogue, wizard and 18 clerics.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Modern D&D loves it's HP bloat all around. Why they went that direction I'll never know.

I think 2e got that part (almost) right... I think you need to front load HP then spread them out more across the 20 levels... and I would base all healing on HD if I could make my own D&D edition... everyone starts with 3 HD (no con bonus) The DM can tailor how deadly by how many (if any) start max and how many (if any) you roll... but that gives you 3HDas a resource... after that give HD only on odd levels and on even levels give a flat 1/2/3 like 2e used to at 10+. Don't give Con bonus to hp but to HD rolled to heal.

 

[Bacon Bits]

Have less modifiers

No, that exacerbates the entire problem they're trying to fix.

The solution would be to eliminate damage dice entirely.

 

[tetrasodium]

I started in 1980 so most of my experience with classic D&D was with AD&D. In large, higher level (i.e. above 5th) parties with few clerics, it routinely took multiple "rest days" for the cleric(s) to memorize and cast enough healing spells to restore the party's hit points. This was routine. I guess you could do a reality check by looking at the pool of hit points for a large party and comparing that to 1e cure spells and slots. I'd also note that @Lanefan liked my post pointing this out--it's just that he sees it as a feature, not a bug.

ETA: Here's a start. A 7th-level cleric in 1e can cast 4 cure light wounds and 1 cure serious wounds. As I recall, it takes 15 minutes per spell level to memorize spells (in addition to sleepytime). So assuming the party is tapped when they rest, they first have to sleep. Then the cleric prays for a couple hours (if only memorizing the cure spells), at which point they can do 6d8+1 healing for the day, or 28 hit points on average. Then you can repeat this process, and again, and again, until the party is healed up. Then, you'll want to rest again so the cleric can memorize all their spells, not just the cure spells. Then you're ready to play the game again. (Any unfortunate random encounters during this time will, of course, delay the process, as rest is interrupted, more damage is incurred, and spells are consumed.)

It's possible 2e resolved this problem/feature (depending on your perspective)--I don't really know. I also know it wasn't an issue with 3.x, because PCs were always festooned with cure wands.

And...I really don't care. I don't like devoting days of game-time and significant play-time to rest and healing mechanics. If this has never been a problem for you, or if you do like the effect of these mechanics on your game (e.g. @Lanefan), then you shouldn't care either. I'm not trying to convince you of anything--merely explaining why "fast healing" in games such as 5e or Shadowdark work just fine for me. As always, you do you!

I'm aware of how healing worked back then and the fact that it regularly took multiple days of recovery prayer and study to be done with it. Where multiple folks are disagreeing with you though is the fact that the only time it was a matter of counting every last hour like you describe was when the party told the gm "we don't care, we are taking a rest until something stops it". The vast vast majority of the time it was handled like so:
Bob: I think we should head back to town and rest up
Party: yea
Gm: ok... So after [whatever] you make it back to town and rest up over a few days feeling ready for the next adventure. During that time [events]


In shifting to explosive complete recovery there is no possibility of backsliding by an encounter interrupting a rest unless that encounter can kill a PC or worse. With that out the window it's just "I don't care we are taking a rest" repeated till successful.

 

[DarkCrisis]

No, that exacerbates the entire problem they're trying to fix.

The solution would be to eliminate damage dice entirely.

I was told if you exacerbate you go blind

 

[Lanefan]

ETA: Here's a start. A 7th-level cleric in 1e can cast 4 cure light wounds and 1 cure serious wounds. As I recall, it takes 15 minutes per spell level to memorize spells (in addition to sleepytime). So assuming the party is tapped when they rest, they first have to sleep. Then the cleric prays for a couple hours (if only memorizing the cure spells), at which point they can do 6d8+1 healing for the day, or 28 hit points on average.

Which, if wise, won't be done until that evening in case those spells are needed for emergencies during the day.

Then you can repeat this process, and again, and again, until the party is healed up. Then, you'll want to rest again so the cleric can memorize all their spells, not just the cure spells. Then you're ready to play the game again. (Any unfortunate random encounters during this time will, of course, delay the process, as rest is interrupted, more damage is incurred, and spells are consumed.)

Absent wandering monsters and-or bored PCs going out and finding trouble, this shouldn't take long at the table. The Cleric rolls the cures, the DM narrates the day's weather, and the day is done unless someone wants to do something else e.g. scout, hunt for medicinal herbs, or whatever.

Next day, same thing. Day after, Cleric preps a different batch of spells and you're good to rock.

It's possible 2e resolved this problem/feature (depending on your perspective)--I don't really know. I also know it wasn't an issue with 3.x, because PCs were always festooned with cure wands.

We must have been a 3e outlier, as we almost never used or even had wands of curing.

And...I really don't care. I don't like devoting days of game-time and significant play-time to rest and healing mechanics. If this has never been a problem for you, or if you do like the effect of these mechanics on your game (e.g. @Lanefan), then you shouldn't care either. I'm not trying to convince you of anything--merely explaining why "fast healing" in games such as 5e or Shadowdark work just fine for me. As always, you do you!

I suppose it also ties to the old question of whether hit points are meat or fatigue, and in what ratio. It's believable that a lot of fatigue can be shrugged off with a good night's rest, but not so much if the character is trying to recover from actual injuries even if minor.

 

[Lanefan]

i would make it harder to revive people, if it's a chore to revive them then you'd be incentivised to not let them go down in the first place, make it so you can't get people up just from giving them a positive hitpoint total, i'd implement a 1st or cantrip level spell something like:

REVITALISE
Cantrip - Necromancy.
Range - 15ft.
Components - V, S, M (a pinch of diamond dust).
Duration - 1 round.
You target one creature that is within range when you begin casting that is either dying or stable but unconcious and begin to rouse them to conciousness, at the start of your next turn if the casting has not been disrupted the target awakens and gains 1 HP if they don't already have any, if you or the target take any damage while this spell is being cast you must make a concentration saving throw to prevent the casting being disrupted. (this spell doesn't use the concentration slot despite concentration checks needing to be made)

Good spell except the range should be touch.

 

[Lanefan]

If you don’t combine this with effective in-combat healing (which is not a thing in the 2014 rules) then you’ve just made combat swingier and riskier without increasing challenge (because challenge implies that your choices or skills will determine success.)

Well, yes; combat being made both swingier and riskier than 5e has it is a laudable goal.

If you need 2-6 actions worth of healing to counter 1action’s worth of damage, you need a party of a fighter, rogue, wizard and 18 clerics.

Or you need to not completely rely on Clerical healing and instead look more to medium-term resting (as in, days but not weeks), potions, herbs, and other means of hit point recovery.