D&D (2024) The Problem with Healing Powercreep

[niklinna]

This post makes me imagine a fantasy Gen. Patton slapping PCs back to positive HP.

As I used to play my 4E Warlord: "Pull yourself together man!"

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Yes, I disagree.

To roleplay, I posit you must be thinking of (your) character. Do this, roleplay the result, and the story will - or should - take care of itself.

...Yes. That's literally what I said. You are thinking of and as a character.

What does "a character" mean?

Because when we look at the definitions of the word that are relevant here (as in, not "His character was questionable at best"), they explicitly refer to a role in a story, to a person portrayed in a drama, to a person represented in a work.

Characters are participants in some kind of story. That was the whole point.

And here you seem to agree with me: thinking of character is what matters.

To think of character IS to think of story. It doesn't have to be thinking of plot, which is what I explicitly said. It's still a story whether or not there's a plot. Plenty of stories have no plot at all!

 

[Vaalingrade]

As I used to play my 4E Warlord: "Pull yourself together man!"

I preferred "You can't give up now; we need you!"

 

[PHATsakk43]

I was thinking more, “no SOB ever won a war by dying for his country, but by making some other SOB die for his.”

 

[FrogReaver]

this is just another way of not letting me play the character i actually wanted to play.

uh, genuinely, which quoted sentiment? it doesn't seem like it would be mine due to character milling being the opposite of what i was desiring. (the 'identical legacy' being used to create the illusion of preserving a short lived species)

Not everyone can get what they want. To some playing an actual aging human might be the character they want to play. Why would you keep them from playing the character they want to play?

Personally I dont mind nearly any houserule because I just find what I want to play under those rules. Flexibility is key in a game you are playing with others. IMO.

 

[Emerikol]

IMO, a game is what you make it. It is very easy to make 5e hard if you want to play that way.

Yes but the rules as written using the general guidelines lead to an easy game. The DM can of course dial up the difficulty. 1e was pretty hard at least at low levels playing as the game presented itself. No dial necessary. Now at higher levels, that may not have been true all the time.

 

[Emerikol]

I don't understand this. Hit points are some sort of abstract indicator of a character's staying power in combat. How is it ridiculous, from the point of view of verisimilitude, to be able to recover X amount rather than Y amount by drawing on one's heroic resolve?

I mean, suppose that, in AD&D, you divided every PC's hit points by 3, but created a mechanic that allowed a PC to recover their hp to full by resting, provided they're not at negative hp. This would make individual combats more dangerous. And would change the pacing of recovery slightly. But how would it make the game less verisimilitudinous?

And that's all 4e healing surges are - hit points gated behind a recovery mechanic.

Well it's an old horse to beat but what is the CHARACTER doing when he expends a surge or HD while resting vs just sitting there and not expending a surge? See in both cases, if that much time passed, the character would rest period. It would always benefit somewhat. It is not a CHARACTER decision. It is a PLAYER decision. When PLAYERS make decisions outside the CHARACTER, it's not the style of play I like. I like actor stance not pawn stance.

 

[Retros_x]

Well it's an old horse to beat but what is the CHARACTER doing when he expends a surge or HD while resting vs just sitting there and not expending a surge? See in both cases, if that much time passed, the character would rest period. It would always benefit somewhat. It is not a CHARACTER decision. It is a PLAYER decision. When PLAYERS make decisions outside the CHARACTER, it's not the style of play I like. I like actor stance not pawn stance.

Everything is a player decision. Using HD is not unfitting for characters actions and intentions though, its just an abstraction to ... well, rest. Eat something, relax for a minute, do some first aid, cleaning and bandaging open wounds, maybe a power nap etc.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Well it's an old horse to beat but what is the CHARACTER doing when he expends a surge or HD while resting vs just sitting there and not expending a surge? See in both cases, if that much time passed, the character would rest period. It would always benefit somewhat. It is not a CHARACTER decision. It is a PLAYER decision. When PLAYERS make decisions outside the CHARACTER, it's not the style of play I like. I like actor stance not pawn stance.

This is why I use "healing kit dependency" optional rule, so using hit dice represent applying first aid, an actual character action. And when you're out of HD, it just means your body has taken such a beating that it has no capacity to recover anymore.

 

[Emerikol]

This is why I use "healing kit dependency" optional rule, so using hit dice represent applying first aid, an actual character action. And when you're out of HD, it just means your body has taken such a beating that it has no capacity to recover anymore.

Yes but if I do EXACTLY the same thing but in case 1 I expend a surge and in case 2 I do not then the end result will be different.

That whole system of thought was embedded deeply into 5e and that is largely why I rejected it. Adding second wind to the base fighter was just the cherry on top.

I could revise a whole lot of 5e and make it usable. But why do such a wholesale rewrite. It would be rejected by most players seeking a 5e game. I'm better off offering a revision of a game a lot closer to what I want.