D&D (2024) The Problem with Healing Powercreep

[Crimson Longinus]

Yes but if I do EXACTLY the same thing but in case 1 I expend a surge and in case 2 I do not then the end result will be different.

Perhaps, or perhaps in the latter case you applied more bandages and healing herbs. Yeah, it is a bit wonky, and I get why you're uncomfortable with it, but this made it close enough to being diegetic that it is acceptable to me. I also added a rule that you can max use half you your HD during one rest, to avoid instant massive healing this way.

 

[Ashrym]

Yes but the rules as written using the general guidelines lead to an easy game. The DM can of course dial up the difficulty. 1e was pretty hard at least at low levels playing as the game presented itself. No dial necessary. Now at higher levels, that may not have been true all the time.

How did the DM dial down the game in 1e? I think it's easier to dial up difficulty than it is to start more difficult and make it easier. And if we're going to do either the default isn't very important.

 

[Clint_L]

Last game I had to run a player's druid because the student couldn't make it, and not wanting to get his character killed, I just used the druid as a strict healer. It was surprisingly effective! The party was only level 2, and "cure wounds" was suddenly a full heal for most characters, and well worth the action.

So I wouldn't even call it healing powercreep. More like the 2024 healing powersurge. I'm not sure yet whether it is good or bad, but I definitely have to re-tune encounters. My gut reaction is that a spell should be worth the action to cast it, so...probably good.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

As I used to play my 4E Warlord: "Pull yourself together man!"

I have told this story before but I love to:

My first 4e game everyone wanted to try the new stuff, but we decided to stick with the 1 of each roles. But our warlord (tactical) was Gale, a Ganassi. She used to alternate between yelling like a drill sergeant and giving inspirational quotes from movies... until game 5 or 6 the first time she had to use inspiring word on her self... and none of us will EVER forget the moment. "I whisper to myself, almost inaudibly low... 'don't let them see you cry, you have to hold it together they all count on you to be there rock'.

 

[tetrasodium]

.

How did the DM dial down the game in 1e? I think it's easier to dial up difficulty than it is to start more difficult and make it easier. And if we're going to do either the default isn't very important.

Potions scrolls and powerful magic items. On top of giving player plans to mitigate risk a bit of a cooperative world helping hand like a convenient gap in guard patrols closed thick door that muffles the sounds of combat a few feet down the tunnel or whatever

It's incredibly easy to lower difficulty as a gm and the benefit is that players pay themselves on the back at how awesome they are when it gets done

Cranking up the difficulty by withholding gear and playing as adversarial world is more difficult and leads to frustrations all around returning that adversarial spirit.

 

[Emerikol]

How did the DM dial down the game in 1e? I think it's easier to dial up difficulty than it is to start more difficult and make it easier. And if we're going to do either the default isn't very important.

I was just pointing out that the default has changed over the years. That DMs who want a skill based campaign will probably want to dial it up. And yes, depending on the game it is easier and harder to dial up or down. I found it very hard to challenge my players in 4e for example. You keep dialing up with little effect until you cross a thin line and suddenly a TPK. I never dialed that high for my groups but I was routinely using challenges meant for groups many levels higher.

 

[Yaarel]

I was just pointing out that the default has changed over the years. That DMs who want a skill based campaign will probably want to dial it up. And yes, depending on the game it is easier and harder to dial up or down. I found it very hard to challenge my players in 4e for example. You keep dialing up with little effect until you cross a thin line and suddenly a TPK. I never dialed that high for my groups but I was routinely using challenges meant for groups many levels higher.

Good to see you back.

For a skill based game, a narrative adjudication style pretty much solves everything. Here, players cannot refer to mechanics, only to what their players actually say and what actions they employ to interact with the scene. Then the DM says yes-no-maybe. Tricky challenges are almost always inherently a complex skill challenge.

But when it comes to dialing up combat challenges, it is delicate. Sometimes the characters are particularly tough in a certain tactic. But once the DM bypasses that tactical strength, the character is actually highly vulnerable. Sometimes, it is difficult to find a middle ground.

 

[James Gasik]

How did the DM dial down the game in 1e? I think it's easier to dial up difficulty than it is to start more difficult and make it easier. And if we're going to do either the default isn't very important.

No traps. No locks. Use Kobolds instead of Goblins, Goblins instead of Orcs. Maximum hit points at level 1. Potions of healing are as common as soft drinks (play some published modules, and you'll quickly have tons of them!). More magic items.

I had to scale down my 2e adventures for years when dealing with low level characters until one day I had the revelation- hey, if it's so hard to run a game for 1st level characters without them dropping like flies...why not start at higher level?

Level 2 or 3 has been my default starting point ever since.

 

[pemerton]

Well it's an old horse to beat but what is the CHARACTER doing when he expends a surge or HD while resting vs just sitting there and not expending a surge? See in both cases, if that much time passed, the character would rest period. It would always benefit somewhat. It is not a CHARACTER decision. It is a PLAYER decision. When PLAYERS make decisions outside the CHARACTER, it's not the style of play I like. I like actor stance not pawn stance.

There is no "just sitting there and not expending a surge" unless either (i) you're fully recovered, or (ii) you're out of surges.

 

[PHATsakk43]

I my experience, 5E is hard to balance the knife edge of challenge/TPK.

Fortunately, at least for me, my tables have been fairly happy with having a solely story driven game. So, I’ve not had to really worry about building either challenging or balanced combats. I’ve just erred on the side of caution.

However, if you’re running the game as it seems to want to be ran, it’s actually pretty hard to estimate how healthy the party will be at any given point in an adventure. The class-level tied abilities that are driven by rest periods make the game feel at some points like a supers game and then a game of resource management where the characters are “spent” and there super powers are not available and what could be a simple encounter ends up being nearly or actually a slaughter.

Compounding this is that encounters are implied to be “balanced” in some way based on average party member levels, but really this points to an arbitrary “balanced” party with full HP and a recent long rest.

In prior iterations of the game, encounters weren’t really expected to be fair or even beatable in the “kick in the doors and slay the goblins” manner which feels more like how the game is currently written. Slaying enemies in combat is the primary aspect of the game, far more that loot and/or story awards.