The Problem with Two Weapon Fighting ?

[Hackenslash]

Hello All,

Nice to see Enworld back and running ok. So now to ask all you DnD Guru's a question that has been plagueing me since I decided to create a new character in case my old one dies in our current campaign.

If you look at Two Weapon fighting on pages 124 and 125 of the PH 3.0 edition, you will see this fighting style explained in a fair amount of detail. However, I can not figure out what the supposed extra attack with the off hand weapon is supposed to be hitting at, it just says what the penalites are and how you lessen those penalties through feats etc. For example say I have a 10th Level Fighter who has a Base Attack of +10/+5(ignoring strengh bonuses and magic bonuses for now) with just one weapon(his primary hand), If I then gave him the Two Weapon fighting feat, Ambidexterity feat, had him use a Longsword in his primary hand and a short sword in his off hand, his base attacks would only be effected by -2 on each weapon, giving him two attacks with his main weapon and one extra attack with his off hand weapon. But what "to hit" would you -2 from, for his off hand weapon(ie. his third attack) ? Would it be +10,-2 or +5,-2. Also, say I add on the Improved Two Weapon fighting feat giving him a second attack with his off hand weapon (that's now a total of 4 attacks per round, 2 from his primary and now 2 from his off hand weapon....err...Whoopeee !!! yes.. I'm excited) what "to hit" would this 2nd off hand attack be at, so that you could -5 from it accordingly. Hope I have explained my problem clearly and thanks in advance for any help and advice. Actually, the character I am creating is a Human, 6th Level Fighter/6th Level Rogue/Were-Tiger with quite good stats.....Ouch !!!!hehehe.

 

[Maitre Du Donjon]

10th level fighter, longsword in primary hand, short sword in secondary hand, no other bonuses to hit, 2WF and ambidexterity feats.

Attack 1: longsword, +8
Attack 2: short sword, +8
Attack 3: longsword, +3

Add Improved 2WF:

Attack 4: short sword, +3

20th level fighter, yada yada yada, no Improved 2WF

Attack 1: longsword, +18
Attack 2: short sword, +18
Attack 3: longsword, +13
Attack 4: longsword, +8
Attack 5: longsword, +3

Add Improved 2WF:

Attack 1: longsword, +18
Attack 2: short sword, +18
Attack 3: longsword, +13
Attack 4: short sword, +13
Attack 5: longsword, +8
Attack 6: longsword, +3

Even with 2WF and I2WF, you still need to use the Full Attack option in order to make more than 1 attack

Maitre D

 

[AuraSeer]

The regular off-hand attack uses your full BAB.

 

[Hackenslash]

So Full BAB it is then and my next character is gonna ROCK !!!

Thanks again to AuraSeer and Maitre D for clearing that Two Weapon fighting confusion up for me. With the off hand weapon getting the Full BAB on it's attack, then it makes for quite a formidable offence even with the penalties. My 6th Level Fighter/ 6th Level Rogue is gonna kick some serious Butt, especially when you add his sneak attack bonus to damage as well. Maybe I should equip him with a Rogues Blade out of the Savage Species magic item list...hehehehehe.....very nasty !!! Thanks again all..

 

[isoChron]

Remember to add only half your strength bonus (rounded down) to your offhand attack ...
Have fun
BYE

 

[Hackenslash]

Good Point !!!

Oh yeah, forgot about that one...good point...cheers !!!

But then again just as a matter of debate, if you truly were ambidextrous then why would your off hand have a weaker strength bonus. Surely, you are just as strong in both hands. I realise that the rules state otherwise but sometimes they are a little unclear in their definition and explanation. Seems strange to me to have a weaker strength bonus on your off hand, especially if you are supposed to be Ambidextrous and have the Two Weapon Fighting Feat...ie. you have supposedly trained to use both hands in combat...Hmmm !!! Anyother opinions out there ??

 

[danzig138]

Re: Good Point !!!

ie. you have supposedly trained to use both hands in combat...Hmmm !!! Anyother opinions out there ??

I imagine that it's because, despite using your full attack bonus, the off-hand attack is considered to be a quicker attack, with less force and focus devoted to it. Don't know for sure though.

 

[Victim]

You probably only get half strength bonus because it's harder to get your whole body behind both swings.

 

[magnas_veritas]

Re: Re: Good Point !!!

I imagine that it's because, despite using your full attack bonus, the off-hand attack is considered to be a quicker attack, with less force and focus devoted to it. Don't know for sure though.

That works. Of course, you still get the full Str bonus to hit, just not to damage.

I'd been only giving my character half Str bonus to hit and to damage, and was wondering why I never hit anything. Then I got a hunch and looked up the Drizzt entry from FRCS.

Brad

 

[rtricher]

I don't care how ambidextrous you are you'll always have a stronger arm than the other, which arm do you most often carry your hockey gear with and such??? or even if you're ambidex you don't go around changing hands you write with every other word.. Besides the reasons the others gave were very good. But they call it an off-hand for a reason.. Oh and the weapon is smaller too.

Anyway it makes sense to me, if it was full strength everybody would be doing it, then they'd want bigger weapons on top of it, can you imagine a Dwarf Weilding a pair of Dwarven War-axes???