D&D General The purpose of deity stats in D&D.

[Alzrius]

beings who created the planes of existence. - even in a small way, such as appearance.

In D&D terms, I find little to suggest that the gods are creators on that scale.

 

[Lanefan]

I understand that's your opinion, but it doesn't help facilitate cool battles and interesting stories does it. Much more interesting IMO to stick with the side that does have the cool interactions and exciting epic moments.

You can have all sorts of cool interactions with a deity without said interactions involving any attempt to slay said deity.

And yes, I can see the DM-side temptation to use deities as opponents when the PCs get to high enough level that there's no meaningful challenges left to them except deities. The solution there is to not let the PCs ever get that powerful.

Well it depends on the power of the deity doesn't it. A hero-deity might be slightly more powerful, a quasi-deity more powerful still, a demigod more powerful again and so forth.

I mean using your logic what is the point of a Player Character being Level 2...its only slightly more powerful than Level 1.

Depending on edition, the power grade between levels was steeper or flatter, with 3.xe being the steepest. I'd rather it be on the flatter side.

 

[cranberry]

In D&D terms, I find little to suggest that the gods are creators on that scale.

If I recall from Deities & Demigods, there are at least 2 pantheons (Egyptian "Atum" and one other) that had creator gods, that faded into the background after their work was done, and lead the way for the more relatable human-centric gods.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I agree, but when rules are applied they should be simple and concise. As I mentioned, high/epic level D&D is already complex enough that its always a factor in any "Top 5 Problems with Epic Tier D&D". So no point compounding things.



I think we can go even simpler than that I mean did every Gygaxian Hero/Quasi-deity necessarily have a Sponsor? I think a Sponsor might quicken the process but I don't see it as a necessity. I mean it wasn't necessary when adopting the 4E Demigod Epic Destiny.

I never really understood the narrative conceit behind the 4e version. It doesn't fit with any divine ascension I've ever heard of.

 

[dave2008]

And yes, I can see the DM-side temptation to use deities as opponents when the PCs get to high enough level that there's no meaningful challenges left to them except deities. The solution there is to not let the PCs ever get that powerful.

That is "a" solution, not "the" solution. Different people want to game differently.

 

[dave2008]

The Gods of Greek Mythology certainly are.

Pretty much all human mythologies have gods that act surprisingly human (even most if not all existing religions I would say)

 

[dave2008]

I don't know about you, but one of us needs the other to believe in them and it ain't us.

I have never had the gods in my games need human worship and find the idea quite sill actually. I mean they existing eons before humans so why would they need our worship!

Other than D&D, has is (worship of deities) ever been a thing IRL mythologies or religions? It was not like Greek, Norse, or Celtic gods (the ones I am most familiar with) needed human worship. So where did this idea come from?

PS - I know it has been stated as a thing in some D&D context (dragon mag I believe - maybe others), but does it have any RL origins?

 

[dave2008]

Me too, but I also want those deities to be stupendously powerful if-when they need to be, and outright unkillable by mortals.

I also prefer deities (or all but the weakest tier) to be unkillable by mortals. However, I still want stats and game mechanics for them. I want to have deity PCs interacting with other deities, primordials, archfieds, etc., not mortal PCs.

 

[dave2008]

I know it's popular, but I never cared for the notion that the gods are driven by human-like needs/motivations, their immortality being the only distinguishing factor. The gods are not immortal soap opera stars, IMO.

I tend to agree and the mortal understanding of gods is generally horribly wrong in my games. They are not simply more powerful people. However, that doesn't preclude them from having stats and being NPCs or even PCs in the game. Just because a god has stats, doesn't mean a mortal can kill it.

 

[Alzrius]

If I recall from Deities & Demigods, there are at least 2 pantheons (Egyptian "Atum" and one other) that had creator gods, that faded into the background after their work was done, and lead the way for the more relatable human-centric gods.

Atum isn't in Deities & Demigods that I recall (nor Supplement IV: Gods, Demi-gods & Heroes, for that matter), so I suspect you're thinking of Ptah. Even then, his being a creator deity is presented as being "according to legend" rather than anything declarative.