D&D General The purpose of deity stats in D&D.

[Upper_Krust]

Were the MCU to use my idea of deities Thanos wouldn't hold a candle to any of 'em. He's just a very high-level mortal, and bleeds when you cut him.

Well firstly, you would be ignoring the 60+ years of Marvel continuity which has included and involved hundreds if not thousands of deities within its stories; not least the Mighty Thor himself and if we use that character as a parallel to D&D, where he is seen as an Intermediate Deity we can gauge the power of many of the gods and higher powers within Marvel.

Secondly, as I originally noted, interaction is more fun and exciting; especially when its hand on. Avengers Endgame (and other stores) are proof of that.

When a deity is on a "whole different level that cannot be challenged" the story just ends right there and then.

But when divine power transcends but is not wholly divorced from what precedes it, then it becomes a more visceral component of the story/adventure/game.

If the Infinity Stones had their own sentience and weren't so controllable by others they'd be more like actual deities in terms of their power levels.

...or perhaps each Infinity Stone only 'doubles' the inherent power within the bearer to control that particular aspect of them (the stones were shown less effective when placed in the hands of lesser beings...although no sense going into comics continuity here as that's a bottomless can of worms).

 

[Distracted DM]

Not sure if anyone already pointed this out, but 4e god stats were the actual gods and included ways to seriously end them. Once you slew the deity's physical form (actual, not avatar) they would eventually return unless you went on a quest to end them for good. The deity entry would have 3-5 suggestions on what these kill the god quests could be.

 

[cranberry]

To be interact-able it has to be like Tier 4 vs. Tier 5.

Personally I think fighting an Avatar should be a stepping stone rather than a capstone because if it is a capstone its a horribly underwhelming one.

Would Avengers: Endgame be the same if they just defeated an Avatar of Thanos?

That's the thing. IMO, it shouldn't be interactable. What's the point of being a deity if you're just a little stronger than the most powerful mortals.

I know it's popular, but I never cared for the notion that the gods are driven by human-like needs/motivations, their immortality being the only distinguishing factor. The gods are not immortal soap opera stars, IMO.

OT: And speaking of superheroes - as you might imagine, I'm not a fan of Thor and the other Asgardians being downgraded from gods to aliens with technology.

 

[TwoSix]

That's the thing. IMO, it shouldn't be interactable. What's the point of being a deity if you're just a little stronger than the most powerful mortals.

Because it promotes a different kind of narrative.

A game where the most powerful of mortal heroes can challenge, or even usurp, a god on their throne presents a different high-level narrative than where the deities are impersonal forces who occasionally show some sapient characteristics to their chosen champions.

Neither is wrong, it just comes down to what taste you prefer. I enjoy all sorts of tastes, so I've used different kinds of mythologies for all my games.

 

[Weiley31]

That was fought with fiddles, not swords...

You can still stab each other with the pointy ends with either options.

 

[Piperken]

...you would be ignoring the 60+ years of Marvel continuity which has included and involved hundreds if not thousands of deities within its stories; not least the Mighty Thor himself and if we use that character as a parallel to D&D, where he is seen as an Intermediate Deity we can gauge the power of many of the gods and higher powers within Marvel....

You mean this Thor?

 

[Micah Sweet]

No reason why Epic Spells could not impart Divinity; both on a temporary or permanent basis ( a la Karsus Avatar) depending upon the power of the spell.

That said, I wouldn't consider Ascension via Epic Spell/Ritual to be the standard method.

As regards playability, I think keeping everything as simple as possible should be one of the main aims, given that Epic play is already more complicated by default.

Simplicity as a primary goal is my problem with modern official D&D, so it's unlikely I will share that view. I'd rather have as many rules as are needed to model a concept to a good degree of accuracy (subjective I know), and just add them to the table game as and if desired.

And no, I expect sponsorship by a deity is a more common method of divine ascension than epic ritual, but the latter has the benefit of not leaving you beholden to anyone.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Makes sense that there is an overlap in the Epic Tier and lower ranks of Divinity.

But Demi-god as an Epic Destiny does not let a PC become, say, Zeus (for example).



I enjoyed 4E (my Level 30 Ranger was part of a Party that slew Orcus). But I don't recall any mechanics that made the character 'feel' like a deity. Powerful and super-heroic and indeed "Epic" yes, but there were no real trappings of Divinity: Worship, Divine Realm, Acts of Creation, etc. As such its like role-playing a king without a kingdom.

My preferred system has those things.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That's the thing. IMO, it shouldn't be interactable. What's the point of being a deity if you're just a little stronger than the most powerful mortals.

I know it's popular, but I never cared for the notion that the gods are driven by human-like needs/motivations, their immortality being the only distinguishing factor. The gods are not immortal soap opera stars, IMO.

Greek mythology, at least, begs to differ on that. Lots of drama there.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You mean this Thor?

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This would be the can of worms mentioned in the part of the post you didn't quote.