D&D 5E The reincarnate table is an interesting thing

[TaranTheWanderer]

Which older game? I think you are either thinking of pre-AD&D or misremembering a house rule as a rule.

Probably 3e/3.5e - in that version you either lose a level, or lose two points of CON if you're already 1st level.

Yeah, this. In any case, dying used to carry harsher penalties. Now it's an inconvenience.

In fact, given it's nothing more than a gold piece cost, I imagine rich nobles can probably pay to have themselves raised fairly easily. That could make for an interesting campaign focus where the rich are, essentially 'invincible' as long as they wield the wealth and power to have powerful wizardly retainers. I mean, it's probably not that different from how most settings are run but it feels like it could be more common or more of a focus in a 5e game.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Hah, I didn't think of 3.XE as "older". Showing my own age there! I only thought about 2E and before.

 

[Parmandur]

Hah, I didn't think of 3.XE as "older". Showing my own age there! I only thought about 2E and before.

Odd thought: a significant percentage, around 13% of D&D fans weren't born until after 3.x was out of print.

 

[Perun]

I've modified the reincarnate spell, partly based in part on input from another thread here. I've switched the spell back to Necromancy (transmutation makes no sense, really) and added it to Wizard's spell list, reduced the material component cost of the spell, added At Higher Levels clause(s), and modified the tables (assigning percentages to races is a... pain).

So, thoughts?

Reincarnate
5th-level necromancy (druid, wizard)
Casting Time: 1 hour
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M (rare oils and unguents worth at least 500 gp, which the spell consumes)
Duration: Instantaneous

You touch a dead humanoid or a piece of a dead humanoid. Provided that the creature has been dead no longer than 10 days, the spell forms a new adult body for it and then calls the soul to enter that body. If the target’s soul isn’t free or willing to do so, the spell fails.
The magic fashions a new body for the creature to inhabit, which likely causes the creature’s race to change. The DM rolls a d100 and consults one the following tables, depending on the spellcaster’s character class to determine what form the creature takes when restored to life, or the DM chooses a form.
The reincarnated creature recalls its former life and experiences. Upon returning, the creature has two options: i) It retains the capabilities it had in its original form, except it exchanges its original race for the new one (if applicable) and changes its racial traits accordingly; or ii) It returns as a completely new character of the same level (determine ability scores, class, and other features as for a new character).
If a creature returns as a beast or plant (in the druid version of the spell), use the statistics provided in the MM, but determine Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma normally (either by rolling, or by using point buy method with 13 points available). The creature is now considered awakened beast or plant. Replace hit points, skill and saving throw proficiencies with those granted by the class(es). At the DM's option, the beast or plant form could be considered an enchantment/curse that can be broken by a quest or some other method.
At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell at 7th level or higher, the length of time the creature can be dead for the spell to work increases to 100 years (material component requirement increases to 1,000 gp), or 200 years when cast at 9th level (with material component of 20,000 gp).
In addition, when you cast the spell at 6th level, you can influence the result of the d1000 roll by your spellcasting ability modifier as percentage. This increases to twice your spellcasting ability modifier if you cast the spell at 7th level, and three times your spellcasting ability modifier when cast as an 8th level spell. If you cast this spell at 9th level, you can choose the new body for the creature.
Example: A druid with Wisdom score of 20 (+5 modifier) casts reincarnate as a 6th-level spell, and rolls 73 on the Druid table (orc), he could influence the result by ±5, allowing him to choose the new form from those listed in the range of 68–78 (lizardfolk, orc, tortle).

DRUID​	​		WIZARD
d100 Roll​	Race	d100 Roll​	Race
01–05​	Bugbear	01–05​	Bugbear
06–07​	Dwarf, hill	06–08​	Dwarf, hill
08–09​	Dwarf, mountain	09–11​	Dwarf, mountain
10​	Dwarf, duergar	12–13​	Dwarf, duergar
11–16​	Dragonborn	14–18​	Dragonborn
17–18​	Elf, high	19–20​	Elf, high
19–20​	Elf, wood	21–22​	Elf, wood
21–22​	Elf, aquatic	23–24​	Elf, aquatic
23​	Elf, drow	25–26​	Elf, drow
24–28​	Firbolg	27–31​	Firbolg
29–30​	Gnome, rock	32–33​	Gnome, rock
31–32​	Gnome, forest	34–35​	Gnome, forest
33​	Gnome, svirfneblin	36–37​	Gnome, svirfneblin
34–38​	Goblin	38–42​	Goblin
39–43​	Goliath	43–47​	Goliath
44–45​	Halfling, lightfoot	48–49​	Halfling, lightfoot
46–47​	Halfling, stout	50–51​	Halfling, stout
48–49​	Halfling, tallfellow	52–53​	Halfling, tallfellow
50–54​	Hobgoblin	54–58​	Hobgoblin
55–60​	Human	59–65​	Human
61–65​	Kobold	66–70​	Kobold
66–70​	Lizardfolk	71–75​	Lizardfolk
71–75​	Orc	76–80​	Orc
76–80​	Tortle	81–85​	Tabaxi
81​	Ape	86–90​	Tortle
82​	Awakened Shrub	91–95​	Triton
83​	Baboon	96–00​	Other/DM’s choice
84​	Black Bear
85​	Blood Hawk
86​	Boar
87​	Deer
88​	Eagle
89​	Giant Badger
90​	Giant Rat
91​	Giant Weasel
92​	Goat
93​	Hyena
94​	Jackal
95​	Mastiff
96​	Panther
97​	Pony
98​	Vulture
99​	Wolf
00​	Other/DM’s choice

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I like it but I'd make a few tweaks:

1) 9th level should be 1000 years, because like, really, there's no meaningful difference between 100 years and 200 years, and 1000 years opens up wild and awesome plot possibilities. (Costs seem good)


2)

If a creature returns as a beast or plant (in the druid version of the spell), use the statistics provided in the MM, but determine Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma normally (either by rolling, or by using point buy method with 13 points available).

I think this needs work, because right now it means all casters who want to stay casters should just pick the option to make a new character entirely. 13 points isn't much to work with. It's less, for example, than my L3 Bard has spent on his mental stats, and gaining a pointless bonus to STR (and probably reduction to DEX!) absolutely does not "balance that out".

But I think this can be fixed, because you have a good order of operations already.

Step 1 is choose whether to continue with the same class/stats/etc. (i) or make an entirely new character (ii). Either way they retain memories/personality.

Step 2 is roll on the chart.

So if they choose (i), and get "lucky" and become an Awakened animal, just let them retain their mental stats (minus any racial modifier), regardless of whether they were rolled or bought. This has two big advantages:

A) It's really simple and means we don't have to un-apply and re-spend ASIs and so on. Nobody has to crack the book and look at how to spend 13 points, either.

B) It's not going to ruin a character who was heavy on mental stats.


3) I think only Druids should inherently get the "choose" modifier from their stat, because Reincarnate is really "their" spell, and it fits with their theme a lot better. Also their table is WAY more dangerous. I'd also give them it at 5th, and just increase it by +Mod again each spell level up.

Maybe let Wizards spend cash money to get the same mod or something though.


4) Because of the "dangerous" Druid table, I'd go through the beasts and carefully ensure that there was always a strong beast and an agile beast within 5 points of each other. Why? Because then you can use the 5 points of freedom to ensure Fighters, Rogues, Rangers etc. don't get totally stuffed by choosing (i) then ending up as a very weak or every un-agile creature. But at the same time they are subject to the randomness of what it is exactly.

 

[Perun]

Thanks for the input. You make some excellent points.

I like it but I'd make a few tweaks:

1) 9th level should be 1000 years, because like, really, there's no meaningful difference between 100 years and 200 years, and 1000 years opens up wild and awesome plot possibilities. (Costs seem good)

I had the same idea, but then I realised that true resurrection has a 200-year limit (that was a surprise), and I didn't want to go over that.

I think this needs work, because right now it means all casters who want to stay casters should just pick the option to make a new character entirely. 13 points isn't much to work with. It's less, for example, than my L3 Bard has spent on his mental stats, and gaining a pointless bonus to STR (and probably reduction to DEX!) absolutely does not "balance that out".

My logic was that you get 27 points for six ability scores, so one-half of that for three, but I can see how that could be problematic.

So if they choose (i), and get "lucky" and become an Awakened animal, just let them retain their mental stats (minus any racial modifier), regardless of whether they were rolled or bought. This has two big advantages:

A) It's really simple and means we don't have to un-apply and re-spend ASIs and so on. Nobody has to crack the book and look at how to spend 13 points, either.

B) It's not going to ruin a character who was heavy on mental stats.

Makes sense. Honestly, when considering animal characters, I think it'd be difficult being a, say, black bear wizard... but I clearly haven't thought this through.

3) I think only Druids should inherently get the "choose" modifier from their stat, because Reincarnate is really "their" spell, and it fits with their theme a lot better. Also their table is WAY more dangerous. I'd also give them it at 5th, and just increase it by +Mod again each spell level up.

Maybe let Wizards spend cash money to get the same mod or something though.

Yet another thing that I considered But, it seemed like too many options for one spell. It might be easier then to go with two different (if similar) spells, one for druids, one for wizards. But that goes against the logic of 5E spells

4) Because of the "dangerous" Druid table, I'd go through the beasts and carefully ensure that there was always a strong beast and an agile beast within 5 points of each other. Why? Because then you can use the 5 points of freedom to ensure Fighters, Rogues, Rangers etc. don't get totally stuffed by choosing (i) then ending up as a very weak or every un-agile creature. But at the same time they are subject to the randomness of what it is exactly.

Hmm, I like the reasoning. I just went through the MM appendix, and listed all (well, most) small or medium beasts and the awakened shrub. I avoided ones with poison or special attacks. Fortunately, it's easy to re-organise the list.