D&D 5E The Return of the HealBot

[ferratus]

The common adage in Pathfinder is that healing only slows you down, and a dead orc does no damage. I hope they can achieve this sort of balance with next. A healer should never be mandatory and people should have freedom to play any class they like.

Eh... a healer is still pretty much required in Pathfinder. Or at least plenty of healing magic for after the fight.

Not to mention debuffs are basically pro-active healing- and a lot more fun.

Damage reduction, temporary hp, buffs and debuffs can all substitute for healing in all but 1 way. They can't undo a huge amount of damage.

Still, I think most cleric spells should have healing or a healing substitute as part of it, as long as it can be done in a thematically appropriate way.

 

[VinylTap]

Ferratus; completely right, I'm always thinking 'in-combat' and for some reason. PF does need OOC healing, but there's a lot of 'non-class/non-spell dependent' ways of handling that. A heal bot is a poor way of handling healing, imo. A healer character should feel empowered, but shouldn't be necessary for most encounters, IMO.

 

[Blackbrrd]

I do feel that both the Wizard and Cleric actually are a bit weak in 5e at low levels. Now, this isn't anything new compared to 3e, but compared to 4e they were a lot stronger. At higher levels you can throw out a couple of daily spells every fight for a good number of fights before resorting to signature or at-will spells. Which looks to be comparable to the Fighter chugging away with up to 3d10 extra damage each turn.

 

[darjr]

I like the idea of turning lethal damage into non-lethal, then that could be recovered by resting.

Maybe there could be some kinds of non-divine non-cleric things that other classes could take as a side option that could 'deflect blows' and turn that damage into non-lethal damage, maybe types of medical 'gear'. Then rest could take care of the rest.

Just kinda doodling here.

 

[n00bdragon]

Just give the cleric a medigun. Let him take his normal actions and say that each round someone nearby gains X hit points. I think we people need to be willing to set aside their perceptions of what the cleric should be from some nostalgic or aesthetic perspective and remember that this is a game. It's a game people are supposed to play and have fun with. Make the cleric a fun choice that people want to play as.

 

[ZombieRoboNinja]

My solution: bring back Channel Divinity and get rid of all other healing spells. Then give each domain an iconic use for Channel Divinity that also involves healing: War can let you attack and heal in the same turn, Lifebringer can let you divide your healing among more than one ally, Sun can let you cast and heal, etc.

In other words, pretty much the 2nd playtest minus the Cure X Wounds spells.

 

[Howndawg]

My solution: bring back Channel Divinity and get rid of all other healing spells. Then give each domain an iconic use for Channel Divinity that also involves healing: War can let you attack and heal in the same turn, Lifebringer can let you divide your healing among more than one ally, Sun can let you cast and heal, etc.

In other words, pretty much the 2nd playtest minus the Cure X Wounds spells.

Definitely give bringing back Channel Divinity a plus. Though I don't think the iconic use necessarily has to involve healing. Would also like to see it recharge like Signature spell.

 

[Libramarian]

Just give the cleric a medigun. Let him take his normal actions and say that each round someone nearby gains X hit points. I think we people need to be willing to set aside their perceptions of what the cleric should be from some nostalgic or aesthetic perspective and remember that this is a game. It's a game people are supposed to play and have fun with. Make the cleric a fun choice that people want to play as.

Having the cleric draw healing spells from the same pool as their other spells IS better design, as a game. If you separate the heals into their own pool then there's no difficult choice to be made about when to use them, it's just automatic -- whenever somebody takes damage, bzzhhh shoot him with the medigun. No tradeoffs, no thinking required. How is that any fun? I don't get it.

 

[Gorgon Zee]

Having the cleric draw healing spells from the same pool as their other spells IS better design, as a game. If you separate the heals into their own pool then there's no difficult choice to be made about when to use them, it's just automatic -- whenever somebody takes damage, bzzhhh shoot him with the medigun. No tradeoffs, no thinking required. How is that any fun? I don't get it.

Actually the reverse is less fun. I have played about 50-50 3e and 4e over the last year and the 3e cleric is constantly frustrated that he wants to do somehting fun and in line with his (non-healing-based) fire god desires, but from the party's POV by far his best action is "ready to interrupt the big bad's full sequence attack on the fighter to keep him alive". Or even just "go heal someone".

It's not fun when the choice is "enjoy the game, or be a healbot". That's why the ability to do both, or the ability to have all classes heal themselves, is necessary. A system that intentionally forces you to choose between having fun and being a good party member is a poor system. Your basic role SHOULD BE FUN.

At the risk of being laughed at, the MMO DCUO solved this by having healing powers only available after you had had enough hits. This would be a cool cleric system -- your domain determines when you can heal: war domain, only after hitting someone, sun domain, after casting a radiant spell, etc. Make it a free action after the domain-based trigger. The you still have the choice of action, but the other players WANT you to have fun so you can heal. Heck, the fighter will probably take a blow to give you a flank to ensure your god will grant you a heal when you hit the enemy!

 

[ferratus]

This would be a cool cleric system -- your domain determines when you can heal: war domain, only after hitting someone, sun domain, after casting a radiant spell, etc. Make it a free action after the domain-based trigger.

That's actually a good idea with some modifications.

Rather than hitting per se, a cleric gets healing, blessing and buffing spell slots when they do various actions to further their god's domain.

You want me to grant you healing? Burn something, says the fire god. You want me to grant some healing, fool people with an illusion spell says the trickster god.

That actually rewards you for acting like a cleric of your particular diety, rather than straight-jacketing you into a pseudo-christian miracle worker because your party needs you to stay up.

I think it has to be a spell point/slot instead of a free action, because it won't always be possible to do something that your god needs you to do when your fighter is bleeding out.