D&D General The Role and Purpose of Evil Gods

[Maxperson]

Fenris-77 peaks in on the thread. Does a little reading. Slowly closes the door and backs away.

Wise move.

 

[pemerton]

Fenris-77 peaks in on the thread. Does a little reading. Slowly closes the door and backs away.

In the spirit of the thread, I need to ask was you interest piqued? Did you feel you'd reached a new peak of enlightenment? Or are you just peeking and then piking?

 

[Fenris-77]

In the spirit of the thread, I need to ask was you interest piqued? Did you feel you'd reached a new peak of enlightenment? Or are you just peeking and then piking?

Well, I made my statement much earlier, and I'm not really that interested in being harangued because I occasionally enjoy something as old fashioned as a little black and white in my game. So, just peeking to see what people are saying.

 

[pemerton]

Well, I made my statement much earlier, and I'm not really that interested in being harangued because I occasionally enjoy something as old fashioned as a little black and white in my game. So, just peeking to see what people are saying.

I was more poking (what I hoped was) gentle fun at the typo in peaking (qv peeking).

 

[Chaosmancer]

It's just a turn of phrase dude. Stop picking at nits as if it somehow makes a difference. Domain or domains, it still makes you wrong.

How is claiming I added an "a" a turn of phrase? That is a turn of phrase I've never even heard before.

 

[Maxperson]

How is claiming I added an "a" a turn of phrase?

Dunno. I didn't say that.

 

[Faolyn]

None of which counters that Domain = Portfolio per 5e RAW.

It's not.

Dragonlance god Branchala has the domain of Light. His portfolio is not light, though; his portfolio is music.

Dwarf god Abbathor and Realms god Waukeen both have the domain of Trickery. Neither of them are trickster gods. Abbathor is the god of greed and Waukeen is the god of wealth and trade. Since there wasn't, and still isn't, a wealth domain, they were assigned Trickery instead. Waukeen also grants Knowledge, but she's not a god of knowledge either.

Ghaunadaur has the War domain, but he's the god of oozes and outcasts, not war or even just fighting.

In some cases, possibly even the majority of cases, the granted clerical domains are the same as the god's portfolio. Gods of war are going to have the War domain. But domains are not portfolios at all. The PHB only mentions the word portfolio once, when saying there's an overlap in the portfolios of some Oeridian gods. While the DMG uses the word a few more times, it at no point says they're the same thing as cleric domains. The closest it comes to that is when it discusses monotheism and says that you can pick an aspect of the god you want to promote and a cleric domain that best fits that.

But nowhere in the books does it say that domain = portfolio.

 

[Maxperson]

It's not.

Dragonlance god Branchala has the domain of Light. His portfolio is not light, though; his portfolio is music.

Dwarf god Abbathor and Realms god Waukeen both have the domain of Trickery. Neither of them are trickster gods. Abbathor is the god of greed and Waukeen is the god of wealth and trade. Since there wasn't, and still isn't, a wealth domain, they were assigned Trickery instead. Waukeen also grants Knowledge, but she's not a god of knowledge either.

Ghaunadaur has the War domain, but he's the god of oozes and outcasts, not war or even just fighting.

RAW says otherwise. Azuth is the god of wizards. Wizards is not his portfolio. Knowledge is, and if you want to add in other books, Arcane is also going to be part of it.

Like demigod, 5e has changed what portfolio means. It no longer means what they are the god of. Now it means, and again this is a direct quote,

"All the domains over which a deity has influence are called the deity's portfolio." In 5e Portfolio = Domain.

But nowhere in the books does it say that domain = portfolio.

I've quoted it about a half dozen times now, including above.

 

[Voadam]

The 5e PH redefines portfolio to be the collection of domains associated with a god.

This is confusing for D&D players of past editions (or those referencing god info from prior editions) because portfolio in the past was used to describe the deities' associated areas of concern.

So in 3e Deities and Demigods page 58 it lists the 3e D&D pantheon's various portfolios and Vecna's portfolio is "Secrets, Intrigue"

In 5e Vecna is the god of secrets and his portfolio as a Greyhawk god is the knowledge domain while his incarnation as a Dawn War pantheon god of evil secrets in the DMG gives him a portfolio of the Death and Knowledge domains.

Vecna has not changed narratively between 3e D&D pantheon and the 5e PH greyhawk god description of him. The game terminology for portfolio has.

The 5e PH only uses portfolio to mean a god's collection of domains.

5e PH page 59: "All the domains over which a deity has influence are called the deity's portfolio. For example, the portfolio of the Greek god Apollo includes the domains of Knowledge, Life, and Light. As a cleric, you choose one aspect of your deity's portfolio to emphasize, and you are granted powers related to that domain."

Page 62: "Gods whose portfolios include the Tempest domain-including Talos, Umberlee, Kord, Zeboim, the Devourer, Zeus, and Thor-govern storms, sea, and sky."

Page 293: "The gods of Greyhawk come from at least four different pantheons, representing the faiths of the various ethnic groups that populated the continent of Oerik over the ages. As a result, there's a great deal of overlap in their portfolios: Pelor is the Flan god of the sun and Pholtus is the Oeridian sun god, for example." Looking at the list Pelor and Pholtus both have the light domain as one of their either one or two suggested domains.

The 5e DMG sometimes uses the term portfolio differently in the few times it uses the term.

5e DMG Page 10: "Each deity in a pantheon has a portfolio and is responsible for advancing that portfolio. In the Greyhawk setting, Heironeous is a god of valor who calls clerics and paladins to his service and encourages them to spread the ideals of honorable warfare, chivalry, and justice in society. Even in the midst of his everlasting war with his brother Hextor, god of war and tyranny, Heironeous promotes his own portfolio: war fought nobly and in the cause of justice." Hextor and Heironeous both have only the War domain as their suggested domain in the PH appendix entries for them, so the DMG here is using portfolio not as the War domain, but possibly as the domain interpreted through Heironeous's narrative elements.

Page 11: "Mystery cults often revere sun and moon deities and agricultural deities-gods whose portfolios reflect the cycles of nature."

Page 12: "The deity of a monotheistic religion has an extensive portfolio and is portrayed as the creator of everything, in control of everything, and concerned with every aspect of existence." and "Deities in a dualistic system maintain large portfolios. All aspects of existence reflect the dualistic struggle, and therefore all things can fall on one side or the other of the conflict. Agriculture, mercy, the sky, medicine, and poetry reside in the portfolio of the good deity, and famine, hatred, disease, and war belong to the evil deity."

 

[Faolyn]

Like demigod, 5e has changed what portfolio means. It no longer means what they are the god of. Now it means, and again this is a direct quote,

"All the domains over which a deity has influence are called the deity's portfolio." In 5e Portfolio = Domain.

I've quoted it about a half dozen times now, including above.

I think I'll pull a you and say "that doesn't mean that the portfolio is limited to those domains or that those domains are actually descriptive of what the gods' portfolios actually are." Hey, if fourteen demigods can have listed domains but still not be able to grant spells (according to you) because one line in a book says they can't, and because, as Voadam noted, the books use portfolio and domain in many different ways in different places, that means that no, those domains are not actually their portfolios--just mechanics used to codify their actual portfolios.

After all, Ghaunadaur is not a god of war, even though he grants the War domain. Branchala is not a god of Light, since he's the god of "elves, kender, music, harmony, poetry, forests, beauty, weather, luck, the disenfranchised," according to a DL wiki. Not even a candleflame's worth of light in his portfolio there.

And so on and so forth.

Also, you need to remember that the listed domains are suggested domains offered for you to consider picking. They aren't hard rules (except in AL games). You can actually pick any domain you want. You can play a Nature cleric of Vecna or Bhaal if you wanted to and that's perfectly legal by RAW. Weird, yes, but legal--and nobody would think that either Vecna or Bhaal are nature gods.