The Sacred Cow Slaughterhouse: Ideas you think D&D's better without

[billd91]

Bill91, am I understanding this right? A ranged halfling barbarian is not a gimped character? Really?

Really.

 

[Systole]

EDIT: They can and it's called houseruling... which you can do for any game.

When you houserule, you're changing the rules as written because they don't work for you, because they're getting in the way of the game you want to play. Which was my point. I'm not saying that as soon as you make one houserule that a system is forever broken, but if you have to lay down houserule after houserule to get to the game you want to play, then perhaps it is.

As far as the rest, you are completely correct that optimization is stopping me from playing a weak character. A group of players is a team, and I should be able to pull my own weight. If I play a character that can't, then I'm letting those guys down.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

... but I don't think it's approach is "objectively" better or superior to choosing to nudge (because in the end nothing actually prevents you from playing a halfling barbarian except your own concerns surrounding optimization) the races towards their iconic niches in fantasy.

One's concerns about optimization might be valid though, especially if it's a difficult game and the players are expected to pull out everything they've got just to survive.

In response to halflings themselves not making as capable barbarians, that depends a lot not only on the base system but also on the supplements. I know PF added favored class stuff for each major race, so I'd expect if someone says a PF halfling can make a good ranged character then it's probably quite possible although I'd like to see the abilities that make it work just out of curiosity.

Likewise, I can see a dwarf sorcerer working in 3.5, especially if using a subrace that doesn't have a penalty to Cha and the dwarf sorcerer racial substitutions from Races of Stone are leveraged.


As far as answering the OP, I'll admit some sacred cows do help with the general feel of the game and could well be needed to be D&D for some. But I think some tweaking could certainly be done. 3.5, for example, would seem to demand some spells have adjusted levels simply because the nature of the game has changed and not having them at mathematically relevant levels (but not be overpowered) can be a big drawback. If the Restoration line being a 3 round cast time is a sacred cow then I think it should be slaughtered at least as far as healing ability damage goes because enemies can do more damage as a standard action than those spells can heal in any amount of time. Even if it's a survival/horror type game, making it a full round action would suffice since the difference between a standard and a full round gives plenty of feeling like the characters are fighting for their lives.

 

[TwoSix]

At the end of the day you need a baseline for what differentiates races, I mean in 13th Age is it fair that a half-orc is better at hitting people than a halfling? What if I want a halfling who is better at hitting people than dodging? Why is that hardocded into the game? I mean don't get me wrong, I like 13th Age alot, even posted an play report about it... but I don't think it's approach is "objectively" better or superior to choosing to nudge (because in the end nothing actually prevents you from playing a halfling barbarian except your own concerns surrounding optimization) the races towards their iconic niches in fantasy.

In 13th Age, a half-orc barbarian isn't any better at hitting than a halfling barbarian. The half-orc can give his racial bonus to Str, but can't put his class bonus there. The halfling can put his class bonus into Str and have the same Str as the half-orc.

13th Age can also support hardcoding racial preferences in the game, by having a character with a One Unique Thing like "I'm the only halfling barbarian in the world."

Of course, if you use the character creation rules as world-building guidelines, then this approach won't work for you.

 

[Imaro]

In 13th Age, a half-orc barbarian isn't any better at hitting than a halfling barbarian. The half-orc can give his racial bonus to Str, but can't put his class bonus there. The halfling can put his class bonus into Str and have the same Str as the half-orc.

13th Age can also support hardcoding racial preferences in the game, by having a character with a One Unique Thing like "I'm the only halfling barbarian in the world."

Of course, if you use the character creation rules as world-building guidelines, then this approach won't work for you.

I was talking about the racial abilities...

 

[TwoSix]

I was talking about the racial abilities...

I know. I merely expanded upon it to give other thread readers a clearer picture of the game's design.

 

[Imaro]

I know. I merely expanded upon it to give other thread readers a clearer picture of the game's design.

So.. the half-orc barbarian is better at hitting than the halfling barbarian... due to their differing racial abilities... right?

 

[TwoSix]

So.. the half-orc barbarian is better at hitting than the halfling barbarian... due to their differing racial abilities... right?

I don't have my 13th Age book right here, so I forget what the half-orc's racial ability is. I'm guessing it involves hitting something?

And I really thought you were talking about stat adjustments until right now, which is my bad. Hoisted in my own petard!

 

[Imaro]

I don't have my 13th Age book right here, so I forget what the half-orc's racial ability is. I'm guessing it involves hitting something?

And I really thought you were talking about stat adjustments until right now, which is my bad. Hoisted in my own petard!

No, don't take it that way... I was mainly making the point that even in 13th Age there are pro's and con's centered around race.

 

[Greg K]

Regarding halfling barbarians being "gimped'. That is only true if you and/or your group are focused on powergaming and/or min/maxing. Not every player or group is focused on those things. Personally, I have been been in two 3e campaigns and the halfling barbarian did just fine and held their own.