D&D 5E The Shield Spell and Spell Points

[Xeviat]

Hi everyone!

I got to start a new game up again, and I'm not running a module this time (my last game was converting "Red Hand of Doom" to 5E, but that stalled when a player fell out). We're trying out some Unearthed Arcana things (Hex Blade and Artificer '17), and the Warlock is trying out my spell-point system (until 11th level, her spell points will be Levelx2 per short rest).

One spell has jumped out as potentially problematic under spell points: Shield. The Mystic has similar effects, but they're all more restricted or are something like +1 AC per Power Point. Shield, being +5 AC for the entire round for only 2 spell points, quickly became the Warlock's go to spell. On top of her already 16 AC, it's a bit intense.

Shield is balanced in core because it's not a scaling spell. Once you're out of your 4 1st level spell slots, it becomes more expensive to cast. But that doesn't exist in a spell point system. A core Warlock with shield (from the Hex Blade spell list, or multiclassing) has 2 shields per short rest at level 5. A spell-point warlock, or really any spellpoint spellcaster, has far more.

Would this be a spell you'd think I should switch up? Changing it to +1 AC per spell point would be doable. It would be equal to core Shield as a 3rd level spell and be even better as a 4th or 5th, but as a 1st and 2nd level it would be weaker.

Thoughts?

 

[Jubles]

The wizard in my campaign started with LMoP and has the Glass Staff. She never has to use spell slots and uses Shield nearly every time something attacks her. She is level 12 and has had it since very early. To be perfectly honest it hasn't often been a big deal. She has gotten pretty dependent upon so that whenever it isn't enough to protect her it ratchets up the tension.

A few sessions ago the party was surprised by some intelligent martial arts adepts protecting a monastery. They went after the wizard, who could not use her reaction, and she actually ended up dying in the surprise round (quickly rezzed, because of course). She has gotten so used to it she often accidentally burns a charge when she is targeted with something that requires a saving throw because she preempts my description by calling out her reaction.


Quick response, I'd recommend not changing it. It's still a resource and only lasts for a single round of combat and they're still far from invincible.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

If it wasn't Shield, then it would be something else. Any spell that doesn't count Hit Points is going to remain just as useful at high levels, when the spell slot cost becomes trivial. In games I've run and played, the Wizard has never worried about running out of low-level spell slots for Shield, so the fact that your Warlock is getting the same benefit doesn't seem out of line. Of course, they also formalized that by taking Shield as their infinite-use spell at 19th level.

The real cost of Shield is that it takes your Reaction for the round, which means you can't Counterspell (or Rebuke).

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

I’d also concur with not changing the spell itself. My preferred way to deal with this sort of thing is to find ways to limit the short and/or long rests (like having another set of enemies come after them right after the first, or create a dungeon that disappears at dawn), so that they think twice about using those resources, or run out if they’re not careful.

 

[Satyrn]

Thoughts?

It's a useless thought for you, probably.

But I think you should say that every time the warlock spends spell points, they must spend a certain minimum number of spell points to maintain the original model of the warlock always casting at max power that it's scaling spell slots provided.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Hi everyone!

I got to start a new game up again, and I'm not running a module this time (my last game was converting "Red Hand of Doom" to 5E, but that stalled when a player fell out). We're trying out some Unearthed Arcana things (Hex Blade and Artificer '17), and the Warlock is trying out my spell-point system (until 11th level, her spell points will be Levelx2 per short rest).

One spell has jumped out as potentially problematic under spell points: Shield. The Mystic has similar effects, but they're all more restricted or are something like +1 AC per Power Point. Shield, being +5 AC for the entire round for only 2 spell points, quickly became the Warlock's go to spell. On top of her already 16 AC, it's a bit intense.

Shield is balanced in core because it's not a scaling spell. Once you're out of your 4 1st level spell slots, it becomes more expensive to cast. But that doesn't exist in a spell point system. A core Warlock with shield (from the Hex Blade spell list, or multiclassing) has 2 shields per short rest at level 5. A spell-point warlock, or really any spellpoint spellcaster, has far more.

Would this be a spell you'd think I should switch up? Changing it to +1 AC per spell point would be doable. It would be equal to core Shield as a 3rd level spell and be even better as a 4th or 5th, but as a 1st and 2nd level it would be weaker.

Thoughts?

My thoughts: casting Shield is often a trap from a tactical perspective. Unless you have perfect information about the enemy's to-hit bonus and are fighting a super-tough enemy, it rarely saves you enough damage (40+ HP) to be more efficient than just healing up after combat via Extended Aura of Vitality. Consider that a mere three Shield spells costs 6 spell points, which is exactly as much as you need to pay for one Extended Aura of Vitality healing 140 HP, and doesn't cost any in-combat (re)action economy or require you to take Warcaster.

But the Paladin (technically Paladin/Sorcerer from a class perspective--but he acts like a classic paladin so that's how I think of him) casts Shield anyway, because from a roleplaying perspective, who likes getting injured?

Those are my thoughts; I hope that's useful to you.

 

[cmad1977]

See if it's a problem first. I can see how it miiight.... but it might not be an issue at all. Honestly the only way I'd think this was an issue is if, after about three/four session the wizards somehow the out and out most powerful character.

Ultimately I'm thinking about it... I don't really see how the wizard being hard to hit is a bad thing. Firstly, you're gonna hit him. Some orc will roll an 18+somewhere and it could absolutely be him. POW!
Secondly, even when the wizard gets missed, everyone's kinda holding their breath and praying for that miss so it's a good moment.
If it does actually create an issue after a few sessions maybe increase the cost somehow? Perhaps relative to the attack... i dunno.


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[Blue]

My thoughts: casting Shield is often a trap from a tactical perspective. Unless you have perfect information about the enemy's to-hit bonus and are fighting a super-tough enemy, it rarely saves you enough damage (40+ HP) to be more efficient than just healing up after combat via Extended Aura of Vitality. Consider that a mere three Shield spells costs 6 spell points, which is exactly as much as you need to pay for one Extended Aura of Vitality healing 140 HP, and doesn't cost any in-combat (re)action economy or require you to take Warcaster.

Dang, your warlock can withstand an extra 140 damage on top of what they would get with judicious use of shield? That's amazing.

This feels like a white room theory that won't survive contact with actual play where there's a cost to going unconscious.

 

[Terry Herc]

Whenever I have a player that encounters a game breaking bug, the best solution is to focus on scenarios that challenges their automatic response. This will make them grow as they seek to overcome the challenge. Try to build a scenario where using the spell or rule results in negative consequences, or it is nullified somehow.

Shield has verbal and somatic components, what about a room or trap that reacts to noise or motion? Or a casting of the silence spell. You could also restrain the character somehow so they cannot move to satisfy the somatic parts of the spell. Or a magic item or enchantment that counters level 1 spells as a reaction. Or an antimagic field that causes a chance of spell failure, perhaps increasing with each casting of the spell.

If you make the easy path difficult, your players will look for another path.

-Terry

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

----, your warlock can withstand an extra 140 damage on top of what they would get with judicious use of shield? That's amazing.

This feels like a white room theory that won't survive contact with actual play where there's a cost to going unconscious.

No, that's an observation from actual play, where Shield is frequently used (by the AC 21 Paladin/Sorcerer) despite being tactically suboptimal, because of roleplaying reasons as I mentioned (injury hurts[1]). And that is despite the fact that I, as a DM, favor large complicated conflicts over dungeon-crawling Medium-bite-sized encounters. In a 5E-style dungeon crawl scenario where attrition is the primary threat mechanism, Shield would be even "worse" (but would still be used anyway).

Only in a highly contrived scenario would Shield x35 [70 spell points] be superior to, say, Shield x3, Expeditious Retreat x2, Find Steed x1, Hypnotic Pattern x3, Extended Aura of Vitality x3, and Quickened Blur x2 [55 spell points]. Maybe against a huge horde of a thousand goblins doing continuous hit-and-run attacks on you in huge Underdark caverns, although even there it would be highly terrain-dependent.

I'm pretty sure that between the two of us, I'm not the one thinking in white-room terms.

[1] And I suppose allowing injury is also a bit risky from a tactical perspective, because the player, unlike the DM, doesn't know exactly how much damage an attack would do or what conditions it could impose, nor what is lurking in the next room. So I suppose this injury-avoidant, inefficient behavior may be driven by imperfect information as well as roleplaying considerations--but I perceive the roleplaying considerations as primary because it doesn't seem to change even against a known threat of small magnitude, like a couple of Chuuls.