D&D General The Transition of a D&D World into the Industrial Era

[doctorbadwolf]

The text of the spell says understand any language you see. That could easily cover whatever cipher you want. Or not, but it's not obviously not the case.

A cypher isn't a language. It's a linguistic puzzle, but it is generally in a language, and learning English isn't going to make a German automatically crack an English cypher.

 

[Eltab]

A cypher isn't a language. It's a linguistic puzzle, but it is generally in a language, and learning English isn't going to make a German automatically crack an English cypher.

"Well, what does the coded message say, wizard?"
"If like Yoda you would speak, for your verbs the audience must wait. "
"WHAT ?! Give it to us in Common!"
"I just did. "

 

[Ancalagon]

Well folks, it's been done very well already: Magical Industrial Revolution

DriveThruRPG

www.drivethrurpg.com

 

[Fenris-77]

A cypher isn't a language. It's a linguistic puzzle, but it is generally in a language, and learning English isn't going to make a German automatically crack an English cypher.

I know what a cypher is, yeah. My point wasn't so much that the spell obviously covers cyphers, but rather that it doesn't obviously not cover them, so at the very least there's a negotiation to be had there. I wasn't trying to start a philosophical debate about language though, as much as those can be fun. Magic provides so many options for communication that there are a ton of cool ideas to play with regardless of which way you go on the cryptography thing.

 

[generic]

I know what a cypher is, yeah. My point wasn't so much that the spell obviously covers cyphers, but rather that it doesn't obviously not cover them, so at the very least there's a negotiation to be had there. I wasn't trying to start a philosophical debate about language though, as much as those can be fun. Magic provides so many options for communication that there are a ton of cool ideas to play with regardless of which way you go on the cryptography thing.

Diplomats might want to craft a Helm of Comprehending Languages. Perhaps diplomatic branches or guilds could craft and maintain these helms, auctioning them off to buyers or granting them to diplomats as gifts.

 

[Bohandas]

"Well, what does the coded message say, wizard?"
"If like Yoda you would speak, for your verbs the audience must wait. "
"WHAT ?! Give it to us in Common!"
"I just did. "

basically what I was saying about writing in idioms and cultural refrences

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

What might be the implications of such an Industrial Revolution, and how might you address these advances?

Well, since you're immediately diving headlong into unscientific postulation because of the inclusion of magic, monsters, and other utterly fantastical elements, how I would address them depends on the kind of campaign world I want to have. Then I can spout any kind of justification and declare any events needed and desired to explain how that world came to be. The world you're describing seems more like steampunk than heroic fantasy simply because the setting is shifted into an industrialized world. Frankly, I don't think that a "D&D setting" really can be stretched to that point without first giving up what it is that MADE it D&D. You can use d20-based game mechanics for it but that doesn't make it D&D. It's really not D&D anymore at that point IMO, because D&D is not steampunk. You can use D&D-mechanics-based rules to create that setting and depict that genre, but that doesn't make it D&D. IMO.

But, just some initial brainstorming if I WERE to go that route, I'd consider a setting with a lot of inherent conflict between industries, nations, factions, etc. based on the "engine" that is chosen by certain individuals and groups. I see three basic possibilities.

First is necromancy, where use of animated dead (or perhaps summoned and enslaved supernatural entities like demons or elementals - but mostly just animated dead horses and other animals) is used as a limitless, literally undying power source. [Animate a dead horse, hook it to a mill, and it will then walk in a circle forever creating free mechanical power for water pumps, but consider the idea of a factory of once-human/elf/orc/halfling skeletons operating textile machinery 24/7/365. Who needs child labor to exploit at that point?] Second is golems and other magically created entities which are far more complex, more complicated, more potentially free-willed, and VASTLY more expensive to produce - but are generally considered just as vastly more ethically and morally permissible (assuming they are then put to ethical and moral use). And third, of course, is the strictly physical mechanics of steam power - even though the means of creating the steam for the engine then has a possibly wide variety of natural and supernatural origins.

That seems like a set of possibilities to build a very interesting campaign world upon. But it wouldn't be much like D&D.

 

[Bohandas]

First is necromancy, where use of animated dead (or perhaps summoned and enslaved supernatural entities like demons or elementals - but mostly just animated dead horses and other animals) is used as a limitless, literally undying power source. [Animate a dead horse, hook it to a mill, and it will then walk in a circle forever creating free mechanical power for water pumps,]

Just use a decanter of endless water. Put it somewhere high up and let the water flow downhill. While you're at it, use that downward flowing water to turn some water wheels and run some machinery

Frankly, I don't think that a "D&D setting" really can be stretched to that point without first giving up what it is that MADE it D&D. You can use d20-based game mechanics for it but that doesn't make it D&D. It's really not D&D anymore at that point IMO, because D&D is not steampunk. You can use D&D-mechanics-based rules to create that setting and depict that genre, but that doesn't make it D&D. IMO.

the Greyhawk setting actually has a god of steampunk, Murlynd the White Paladin.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

Just use a decanter of endless water. Put it somewhere high up and let the water flow downhill. While you're at it, use that downward flowing water to turn some water wheels and run some machinery

Supply and demand baby. It's a lot easier to source corpses to animate than magic items that everyone wants.

the Greyhawk setting actually has a god of steampunk, Murlynd the White Paladin.

Only with 3E and later. And there's a whole genre of difference between having one deity of "magical technology" and having an entire setting of steampunk. Being the only person around who has a decanter of endless water and using it to power a factory or push you around in your boots of levitation is different than the entire game world engaged in a revolution of industry based on any and every fantasy industrial natural and supernatural power source that can be dreamed up.

Again, you can take the D&D game rules that far, but then IMO it's not really D&D anymore even if it's a fun RPG setting.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Supply and demand baby. It's a lot easier to source corpses to animate than magic items that everyone wants.


Only with 3E and later. And there's a whole genre of difference between having one deity of "magical technology" and having an entire setting of steampunk. Being the only person around who has a decanter of endless water and using it to power a factory or push you around in your boots of levitation is different than the entire game world engaged in a revolution of industry based on any and every fantasy industrial natural and supernatural power source that can be dreamed up.

Again, you can take the D&D game rules that far, but then IMO it's not really D&D anymore even if it's a fun RPG setting.

It’s closer to DnD’s roots than the current baseline default setting milieu. DnD absolutely can be steampunk. Or Deiselpunk. Or Pulp-Science Fantasy, like DnD was in the 70s.

I know what a cypher is, yeah. My point wasn't so much that the spell obviously covers cyphers, but rather that it doesn't obviously not cover them, so at the very least there's a negotiation to be had there. I wasn't trying to start a philosophical debate about language though, as much as those can be fun. Magic provides so many options for communication that there are a ton of cool ideas to play with regardless of which way you go on the cryptography thing.

Sure, that’s fine, but I just don’t think there is much argument for CL deciphering cryptographs outside of “it would be cool”.

But I’m also biased because I add the Riddle skill from Adventures in Middle Earth to my dnd games, and make common have regional dialects, and otherwise make linguistics matter.