D&D General The Transition of a D&D World into the Industrial Era

[Beleriphon]

In my setting, at least, Wizards are generally too valuable to be expended on the battlefield.

That solves that problem, although anybody with the ability to use a wand of fireball of fills the same role. In a lot of ways the easiest thing to look at in comparison is the descriptions of stuff from Eberron, because the the setting very much used spellcasters on the battlefield.

 

[generic]

Fireball v Gunpowder is going to put the kybosh on guns developing, especially as early guns and canons are really slow to reload and have a tendency to violently explode

In a default setting, yes. In my setting, no. Wizards are far too valuable.

 

[generic]

That solves that problem, although anybody with the ability to use a wand of fireball of fills the same role. In a lot of ways the easiest thing to look at in comparison is the descriptions of stuff from Eberron, because the the setting very much used spellcasters on the battlefield.

I tend to take, in my current setting, a "magic is really rare when it's arcane" approach. It's more legendary than in a default setting, but less legendary than in a low-magic setting. It is more akin to how the common people may have heard of spice traders, but have rarely seen them, rather than the common folk hearing about legendary wizards, and never, ever, seeing magic.

 

[Tonguez]

In a default setting, yes. In my setting, no. Wizards are far to valuable.

fair enough, but just to note that something like Meteor Swarm has a range of 1 Mile, so your Wizard can still be safely back behind the defended walls of his Castle while casting the spell.
That said I can accept the notion of wizards being much rarer than commoners with guns, but do wonder if giving commoners wands of fireball is a better investment

 

[generic]

Just some notes in case no one has mentioned them.

Can low level magic be taught at a school? If so, what kinds? Can the Elemental Evil cantrips be learnt in a guild apprenticeship? If so, irrigation on a large scale is no longer labor intensive, nor is changing the landscape to better serve the needs of building.

Are there people who can cast detect poison and disease? If so, is medical science advanced by an early knowledge of viral and bacterial science? Just accurately diagnosing diseases creates an unimaginable difference in general public health.

Comprehend Language and a ton of other rituals of low level totally change the ability of the learned to share and improve their knowledge. Look at medieval Baghdad. There were Muslim, Christian, Jewish, and “doubter” scholars just sharing knowledge and challenging each other and reviewing eachother’s work all day every day. Imagine if that was the norm for much of history.

Do magic and tech compete? This is a fundamental question. Do the Fey and the gods and giants and such shun tech, delight in it, or is it as much a mix as it is for humans? Can tech be mixed with magic?
In my own rpg Quest for Chevar, they mix fine, but magic swords are “better” than magic guns because most magic needs a connection to a creature with a conscious Will to operate, and so enchanting bullets is hard while enchanting Melee weapons easy, and enchanting the gun is limited. But in the future era, there are magi-tech warp stations, and spaceships all have magical and tech components seamlessly integrated. Rangers (the PCs) often have enchanted cars and computers even in the modern era.

Are there Artificers? This is related to the preceding question. Are there people who specialize in magical tech to the point they can make homunculus, iron defenders, walking turrets, enhanced magical firearms, etc?

Is the Keen Mind feat a thing that npcs can have? This has a huge impact on how information works. On how reliable oral traditions can be. On how like fiction the geniuses are.

Are Druids uniformly anti-civilization, or more like eberron’s, where some hate cities and some sell goodberry wine to rich people and teach farmers low level Druidic rituals To help their harvests be reliable and keep wolves away without killing them?
this will help determine population density, but also how many people need to be farmers, as well as what sort of social (and thus political) leverage Druids have in the world, and thus how “sustainable”/green industrialization is. Best answered per region/nation, tbh.


Does magic make the industrialized world less terrible to live in for the average person? Does magic trap smoke and soot from factories and refineries and the like, and maybe convert it into useful stuff? Maybe industrial byproducts end up replacing classic spell components, or lead to variant versions of classic spells? Imagine a fireball that does a bit less damage but obscures the area by leaving it covered in a dense black cloud of greasy smoke.

I'll answer these in the context of my own setting, for the purpose of discussion. I do realize that the thread is not about me or my setting in its entirety.

1. There are no "magic schools" in my world. Magic is taught by either lone spellcasters taking on apprentices or small guilds teaching select individuals under a bond of internment. I limit magic by saying that it's equivalent to very complex subjects; unable to be accomplished by all but the most astute. You can have an aptitude for magic, but it's less mystical, and more a matter of not having your mind torn apart, leaving shreds of insanity behind. So, yes, some magic can be taught in closed environments, but not, generally, on a scale sufficient enough for magical solutions to be implemented except in extreme circumstances.

2. Yes, and yes.

3. This one is less often implemented, but this is an important consideration.

4. Not really, they coexist. Technology is far more accessible than magic.

5. No, there are no artificers. Legendary craftspeople are the equivalent.

6. Yes.

7. No, and yes, it does vary by region/nationality.

8. No, it makes life more comfortable for the uber-wealthy. Benefits have yet to trickle down to lower classes.

 

[generic]

fair enough, but just to note that something like Meteor Swarm has a range of 1 Mile, so your Wizard can still be safely back behind the defended walls of his Castle while casting the spell.
That said I can accept the notion of wizards being much rarer than commoners with guns, but do wonder if giving commoners wands of fireball is a better investment

Perhaps it would be, but, in my setting (again, good idea when applied to average settings or the default setting) you can't just easily make a wand of fireballs, nevermind the fact that authorities would not like it if common townsfolk had access to powerful magic.

As for one powerful wizard wreaking havoc, yes, wizards who can cast spells above 6th-level are considered powerful in my setting, and those able to cast high-level spells are legendary in their power. Meteor Swarm is a magical thermonuclear weapon in terms of damage.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I'll answer these in the context of my own setting, for the purpose of discussion. I do realize that the thread is not about me or my setting in its entirety.

1. There are no "magic schools" in my world. Magic is taught by either lone spellcasters taking on apprentices or small guilds teaching select individuals under a bond of internment. I limit magic by saying that it's equivalent to very complex subjects; unable to be accomplished by all but the most astute. You can have an aptitude for magic, but it's less mystical, and more a matter of not having your mind torn apart, leaving shreds of insanity behind. So, yes, some magic can be taught in closed environments, but not, generally, on a scale sufficient enough for magical solutions to be implemented except in extreme circumstances.


8. No, it makes life more comfortable for the uber-wealthy. Benefits have yet to trickle down to lower classes.

Quick note on 1. What you describe would, logically, still leave magic able to be learned by at least 1% of the population, which is more than enough for rulers and wealthy merchants to patronize and sponsor that learning, because the social scale benefits are such that not investing in them would be literally insane or moronic on the part of the powerful. But I suspect that perhaps you mean something more complex and difficult to learn than any real world subject, and thus an even smaller percentage of people can learn it than can learn advanced calculus?

on 8, I wonder how that works? Do the rich have personal enchantments on their own homes to clean the air? on their clothes and carriages and such to make soot not stick to them and dirty air become clean as it comes near?
Wouldn't it be cheaper and easier for that rich person to just...enchant the factory?
Is the point to extrapolate from magic being in the world, wherever that brings you, or is the point to extrapolate to a specific conclusion (in this case, a world where life sucks just as bad for the poor as it did during the real IR and cities are disgustingly dirty places where nothing can ever stay clean because factories are belching out black poison all day every day)?

 

[TheCosmicKid]

In a default setting, yes. In my setting, no. Wizards are far too valuable.

Or perhaps just too gentlemanly, a la Jonathan Strange.

 

[generic]

Quick note on 1. What you describe would, logically, still leave magic able to be learned by at least 1% of the population, which is more than enough for rulers and wealthy merchants to patronize and sponsor that learning, because the social scale benefits are such that not investing in them would be literally insane or moronic on the part of the powerful. But I suspect that perhaps you mean something more complex and difficult to learn than any real world subject, and thus an even smaller percentage of people can learn it than can learn advanced calculus?

on 8, I wonder how that works? Do the rich have personal enchantments on their own homes to clean the air? on their clothes and carriages and such to make soot not stick to them and dirty air become clean as it comes near?
Wouldn't it be cheaper and easier for that rich person to just...enchant the factory?
Is the point to extrapolate from magic being in the world, wherever that brings you, or is the point to extrapolate to a specific conclusion (in this case, a world where life sucks just as bad for the poor as it did during the real IR and cities are disgustingly dirty places where nothing can ever stay clean because factories are belching out black poison all day every day)?

I would respond to the first assertion with a yes. Magic is as hard to learn as advanced nuclear physics, or, even, a more complicated subject. You will not meet many master nuclear physicists, and you won't see many Magic users.

As for number eight, it is just not yet that sooty (that's changing for the worse), and mages don't have the necessary resources to just "clean the factory".

Edit: I should clarify that my statement on magic applies to arcane magic, not necessarily other kinds.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I would respond to the first assertion with a yes. Magic is as hard to learn as advanced nuclear physics, or, even, a more complicated subject. You will not meet many master nuclear physicists, and you won't see many Magic users.

As for number eight, it is just not yet that sooty (that's changing for the worse), and mages don't have the necessary resources to just "clean the factory".

Edit: I should clarify that my statement on magic applies to arcane magic, not necessarily other kinds.

Okay, you and I probably have differing ideas about human exceptionality, so I won't go any further on 1. On 8, I'm just curius what magic could be doing that makes life better for the rich that wouldn't be simpler applied to the sources of "life suck"?