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The Troubadour's Travels - Low Magic [D&D 3.5/G'n'GR] [Recruiting]
- Thread starter Ilja
- Start date
Wysiwyg: It should be enough for basic equipment. Metal armor isn't as common in the world as in D&D, so your enemies will rarely use them either.
Rhun: Hope you'll get time then! :3
Theroc: Wrote a bit in your profile. A léaram fighter sounds great though, I really hope you'll join
Rhun: Hope you'll get time then! :3
Theroc: Wrote a bit in your profile. A léaram fighter sounds great though, I really hope you'll join
Theroc: Wrote a bit in your profile. A léaram fighter sounds great though, I really hope you'll join
Yeah, as I said, I'm interested, my only hoop atm is accessing those rules. What you said actually made me even more interested, but I want to make sure I understand the full extent of the changes.
Sounds like a swordmaster might be fun in this setting. If I get my hands on the rules, I'll see what I can whip up.
Edit: Went rollin' through that thread and found the game in a .txt version. Will review the rules and see what happens in the next couple days.
There are some issues that I have picked up with this game system that need to be addressed. I did not read through the thread’s over 300 posts to see if anyone else thought of these issues, but it’s reasonable to ascertain that someone did.
Issue – Ignoring class HD & Level differences
While the life bar depicts a more realistic version of the character's well being than just a number, it completely ignores the fact that some classes are tougher than others or that characters get tougher as they progress in levels. One of the main differences between the classes is their Hit Dice that allow some classes to withstand more damage than others. The current rules ignore that some classes can take more damage than others – hence severely limiting these classes. Under the current rules a 6th level barbarian (6d12) can take as much damage as the frail academic 1st level wizard (1d4). The “Soak” feature that depicts how tough the character is does not cater for the class differences.
Resolve – Change the Soak Formula
The Soak formula can be changed to accommodate the difference.
The current formula is – Constitution mod + Armor bonus + Natural Armor bonus + Size mod
Change the formula to – HD mod + Level mod + Constitution mod + Armor bonus + Natural Armor bonus + Size mod
HD modifier is –
HD d4: -2
HD d6: -1
HD d8: +0
HD d10: +1
HD d12: +2
For multi-classed characters, the predominant HD of the character should be used (or an average rounded down).
Level modifier is equal to (Level / 2) – rounded down.
Level 1: +0
Levels 2-3: +1
Levels 4-5: +2
Level 6: +3
Issue – Too many rolls for a PBP game
The addition of the Defensive Roll will introduce another waiting period between posts. While it is fine for tabletop games, it will severely hamper the online play-by-post game.
Resolve – 2 Options
Firstly option is to have the DM make all rolls. The players will just declare what their planned actions are, and the DM will make the rolls on their behalf. This will expedite the game considerably and also eliminate any chances of players “re-rolling” their dice. The issue of trust falls onto the DM’s shoulders – not the players’.
Second option is the have a non-random Defensive Bonus – just like normal AC. Instead of rolling take 10 instead.
The Defensive Bonus of each character would be – 10 + Base Defence Bonus + Dexterity Mod + Size Mod + Shield Mod + Other Mod
Issue – Ignoring class HD & Level differences
While the life bar depicts a more realistic version of the character's well being than just a number, it completely ignores the fact that some classes are tougher than others or that characters get tougher as they progress in levels. One of the main differences between the classes is their Hit Dice that allow some classes to withstand more damage than others. The current rules ignore that some classes can take more damage than others – hence severely limiting these classes. Under the current rules a 6th level barbarian (6d12) can take as much damage as the frail academic 1st level wizard (1d4). The “Soak” feature that depicts how tough the character is does not cater for the class differences.
Resolve – Change the Soak Formula
The Soak formula can be changed to accommodate the difference.
The current formula is – Constitution mod + Armor bonus + Natural Armor bonus + Size mod
Change the formula to – HD mod + Level mod + Constitution mod + Armor bonus + Natural Armor bonus + Size mod
HD modifier is –
HD d4: -2
HD d6: -1
HD d8: +0
HD d10: +1
HD d12: +2
For multi-classed characters, the predominant HD of the character should be used (or an average rounded down).
Level modifier is equal to (Level / 2) – rounded down.
Level 1: +0
Levels 2-3: +1
Levels 4-5: +2
Level 6: +3
Issue – Too many rolls for a PBP game
The addition of the Defensive Roll will introduce another waiting period between posts. While it is fine for tabletop games, it will severely hamper the online play-by-post game.
Resolve – 2 Options
Firstly option is to have the DM make all rolls. The players will just declare what their planned actions are, and the DM will make the rolls on their behalf. This will expedite the game considerably and also eliminate any chances of players “re-rolling” their dice. The issue of trust falls onto the DM’s shoulders – not the players’.
Second option is the have a non-random Defensive Bonus – just like normal AC. Instead of rolling take 10 instead.
The Defensive Bonus of each character would be – 10 + Base Defence Bonus + Dexterity Mod + Size Mod + Shield Mod + Other Mod
doghead
thotd
For what it is worth, and you can do with it as you wish, I don't think issue 1 is really much of an issue. From my experience (I have run three GnG pbp games, iirc) those characters built for combat tend to be significantly 'tougher' as a result of their abilities, skills, and equipment: higher Defence values means that they are harder to hit; heaver armour, higher Con and the Toughness feat mean they can take more damage before being knocked down. DnD uses an abstracted value (HP's) to represent a characters ability to duck and weave, defect and take damage. GnG provides mechanics for it.
The defence roll, if handled by the DM makes no difference to the pacing of combat. The critical hit system is more problematic. Its not particularly pbp friendly. I eventually settled on using 'Bypass Armour' as the default critical hit, and handled all rolls myself*. If players wanted to use a different Critical Hit, they had to announce that when they posted their actions.
Using a fixed value for Defence would simplify things somewhat. But it would also take away from potential of the system by limiting the range of outcomes possible. I had a third level character drop an owlbear (a large critter, with all the advantages that that bestows in GnG) with one blow because he rolled well, and the owlbear didn't.
That being said, in later games I did go with 2d10 rather d20 for attack and defence rolls. While extreme high/low combinations were still possible, they were less likely. Which in turn put more weight on the characters abilities, skills and equipment. Which in turn tended to favour the PC's, as they generally had the edge in these areas.
doghead
aka thotd
* Eventually I just let slide the whole 'confirming threatened criticals' thing. While the system is very elegant, it is quite involved, so to keep things moving I just 'eyeballed' it mostly.
The defence roll, if handled by the DM makes no difference to the pacing of combat. The critical hit system is more problematic. Its not particularly pbp friendly. I eventually settled on using 'Bypass Armour' as the default critical hit, and handled all rolls myself*. If players wanted to use a different Critical Hit, they had to announce that when they posted their actions.
Using a fixed value for Defence would simplify things somewhat. But it would also take away from potential of the system by limiting the range of outcomes possible. I had a third level character drop an owlbear (a large critter, with all the advantages that that bestows in GnG) with one blow because he rolled well, and the owlbear didn't.
That being said, in later games I did go with 2d10 rather d20 for attack and defence rolls. While extreme high/low combinations were still possible, they were less likely. Which in turn put more weight on the characters abilities, skills and equipment. Which in turn tended to favour the PC's, as they generally had the edge in these areas.
doghead
aka thotd
* Eventually I just let slide the whole 'confirming threatened criticals' thing. While the system is very elegant, it is quite involved, so to keep things moving I just 'eyeballed' it mostly.
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[sblock]This is simply not true. A 6-th level barbarian would have 6 base defense, and with these arrays probably at least +1 from dexterity. Also, he would have a soak value of somewhere around 6 (+4 from chain shirt, +2 from Con) supposing he hasn't taken Toughness. When raging, he'd have a soak of 8 due to con bonus.
A first level wizard would have a defense of maybe 1 (+1 dexterity), and a soak of 1 from con. If he has cast Magic Armor, he'd have a soak of 5.
If someone attacked these and rolled for example 20 on the attack roll, and dealt a base damage of 1d8+5 damage (average 9), they situation would be:
For barbarian: Supposing average defense roll, he'd take 9 damage +3 from attack bonus difference. 12 damage would be reduced to 6 after the soak, and to 4 if he raged.
For wizard: Supposing average defense roll, he'd take 9 damage +9 from attack bonus difference. 18 damage would be reduced to 17 from soak, or 13 if mage armor was up. He'd take more than double the damage of the barbarian regardless.
A situation much more like the one you describe would be the difference between for example a barbarian and a rogue, since a 6-th level rogue might have slightly higher defense (5 base defense +3 from dexterity) than a barbarian. Still, the soak would probably be lower due to lower con and lighter armor. And also, different feat choices. And also - equipment becomes more important. A barbarian might have to give up the versatility of light armor for maybe a breast plate, and might even consider carrying a shield.
So the differences in survivability is tied to BAB, Reflex, and Constitution instead of hit points - the two first vary between classes and levels, the last one should be high priority for anyone who wants to stand in the middle of a battlefield. It increases (compared to the other classes) survivability of classes with low attack bonus and high reflex saves - the rogue and monk only, in this case (or if the swashbuckler maybe have average BAB). Neither of these are excactly over-powered in combat as it is.[/sblock]
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[sblock]Yes, I can see this being a problem. One option might be to let me do all the responsive rolls such as defense rolls and saves, while the players get to do their attack rolls and such. I don't want to deprive the players of the fun in rolling dice, and I do trust you - it's not a competition anyway. That it's not a competition might be a reason too that I just care about decent balance - everyone should have their moment of glory, but having numerical balance all the way to the tables seems quite unnecessary. The fighter will be the best at fighting, the rogue will be the best at sneaking, and so on. This won't change.
Non-random defense isn't too good though, it takes away the whole randomness and danger of combat. Because of soak, having random defense is a key variable in being able to deal decent damage at all.[/sblock]
@Doghead: I though about using 2d10, but I'm gonna start about the same campaign as a table-top game too and thought that I'd do different methods at each version of it to see what difference it makes.
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Updated the top post with some more info, especially two character classes to allow for different builds than just different kinds of fighters and different kinds of rogues.
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String, I'm slightly confused by the updates to the NPC classes. are you suggesting we play an NPC class? Or are you just showing that to us so that we know what those NPC's are when we come across them?
Atm, I'm thinking of a Rogue/Ranger Learam... dual wielding Carwelan swords when available. Tendency to flank in group combats, to hit a bit harder, lol.
Atm, I'm thinking of a Rogue/Ranger Learam... dual wielding Carwelan swords when available. Tendency to flank in group combats, to hit a bit harder, lol.
Aliana, Calria, and Uriens are all large port cities. Don't know which is the largest though.
I simply powered up the NPC classes to make them into PC classes. You may play them if you want, or multiclass into them, or stay away from them. This is to allow for example someone who wants to play for example a field surgeon (expert or fighter/expert), merchant (expert or rogue/expert) or nobled warrior (aristocrat/fighter).
There will be a lot of non-combat encounters, so combat prowess isn't everything in this campaign. There will of course be combat too, just that some encounters might be best suited to stay away from the axes.
Yes, fighting with two Carwelans are not unheard of, though uncommon. Remember though that Carwelan isn't a light weapon, so you'll take the -4 penalty on two weapons together with the rogues BAB.
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