The Warmage, Alot more thasna sorcerer?

[Sravoff]

I got Complete Arcana finally and was wondering if any one saw the warmage as rather powerful?
Compared to sorcerer
bab:Same Saves:Same Special:MUCH more Spells per day:Same
Spells Known: Many more, though more narrowed.

Now I realize the warmage gets spells that deals damage, thats it. Juts hits people for damage but the orbs seem a little powerful anyway. They get a spell of every energy type at first level that does damage equal to a long sword per level. So this warmage gets more versatility in the regard to damaging creatures such as trolls because he can cast any type of energy he wants.

Any one else think this is a little overpowering?

Thanks!

-Sravoff

 

[Land Outcast]

*looks at the warmage* *looks at a fire-battery sorcerer* *looks at an evoker*

well, it seems(or aint' it obious?) the warmage gets the edge over here... and knows all the spells... and casts them spontaneously...

I call it a "want to make a rocket launcher (spellcaster)? make a warmage"
A bit overpowered, yes, but it's so damage themed that looks to me more of a concept for a prestige class than for a core class.

BTW: I'm the DM in my goup, and when the CA arrived... [rant]FREAKING NON-SAVE NON-SR ORBS [/rant]

 

[Al'Kelhar]

[HIJACK]

FREAKING NON-SAVE NON-SR ORBS [/rant]

Yep, the spell designers at WoTC are breaking their own "rules" for spells.

First, instantaneous spells causing energy damage are evocation. Only spells which cause energy damage over time should be conjuration.

Second, spell resistance should apply to targeted conjuration spells which cause energy damage.

SPELL RESISTANCE
Spell resistance is the extraordinary ability to avoid being affected by spells. (Some spells also grant spell resistance.)
...
When Spell Resistance Applies
Each spell includes an entry that indicates whether spell resistance applies to the spell. In general, whether spell resistance applies depends on what the spell does.
Targeted Spells: Spell resistance applies if the spell is targeted at the creature...

Conjuration: These spells are usually not subject to spell resistance unless the spell conjures some form of energy. Spells that summon creatures or produce effects that function like creatures are not subject to spell resistance.
...

IMHO the designers have realised that direct damage spells in D&D v.3x SUCK, and that since just about every creature above CR 10 has both SR and energy resistance, spellcasters using direct damage energy spells are seriously nerfed. So they're desperately trying to fix the problem by creating a whole lot of conjuration spells which aren't subject to SR and don't provide saves for their energy damage.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar[/HIJACK]

 

[Gronin]

While I have to admit they are pretty nasty they are also very one dimensional. They can do a pretty impressive amount of damage and they can always find the damage most appropriate to the target but they have no chance if the fight goes sour. They have no way to escape and no real protection spells. Further by running around in armour and lobbing spells they are just kinda screaming please kill me first.
It has been my experience that the class is a lot of fun (if you are into mass destruction) but not particularly long lived.

 

[Li Shenron]

I don't know how a Warmage is exactly, but I chime in to say that IMHO a Sorcerer whose all spells are damaging spells is a weak Sorcerer.

IMXP it's enough for a Sorcerer to have a few damaging spells: more than one per spell level is usually a waste. If you take appropriate metamagic feats you can decrease the number of known straight-damage spells a lot and pick up different spells for much more versatility.

My current sorceress only knows magic missile and fireball, and she's 14th level. Admittedly she's also an Incantatrix (which gets a few bonus metamagic feats), but she's kind of extreme in keeping her number of damage spells low.

Feats that help "multiply" the effectiveness of damage spells are:

Empower Spell
Maximize Spell
Heighten Spell (not much)
Energy Substitution
Energy Admixture
Repeat Spell
Twin Spell
Chain Spell
Sculpt Spell
Widen Spell

With at least a couple of these feats in one's repertoire you can live with only a few damage spells and save other known spells for lots of tricks that a Warmage simply has no chance of.

Ergo... don't compare the Warmage with a Sorcerer whoso all spells are offensive spells, or offensive + defensive. The Sorcerer has much more he can do (including during a fight).

 

[Sravoff]

Hmm.... Okay so pretty much warmage=kill alot and die young.

So has any one done any changes to the war mage to make it a little different?

I must admitt I have no ideas, I tried increasing bab and dropping some of their special abiilities but that doesn't really help this problem.....

-Sravoff

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Warmage lacks so much in the area of versatility that I'd only ever want one in the party if we already had arcance magic covered by either a wizard or a sorcerer (assuming you want a balanced party). A warmage can't cast fly, can't teleport, can't use true seeing or see invisibility, can't turn invisible, can't use illusions, can't use divinations and can't dispel magic. Those are things that any sorcerer worth his salt can do to some degree. And are vastly more important than just damaging foes.

I'd venture so far as to say a warmage is less versatile than warlock.

I'd take a sorcerer or a wizard over a warmage any day of the week. I really don't see much of a point in having the class at all now that I think about it.

 

[TheGM]

Hmm.... Okay so pretty much warmage=kill alot and die young.

So has any one done any changes to the war mage to make it a little different?

I must admitt I have no ideas, I tried increasing bab and dropping some of their special abiilities but that doesn't really help this problem.....

-Sravoff

I have been thinking about it because I use them for an organization in my world, but I'm afraid I have nothing worked out that I could offer you today. Mostly because no one wants to play one. Hmmm... Now I need to ask if that's why . They might be willing to if I house ruled the class.

 

[Gez]

I say, take a warmage with a decent Wisdom and the Arcane Disciple feat from Complete Divine. Choose Travel or Trickery as your domain (possibly both, if you want to take AD several times). War and Healing are good bets, too.

You probably won't be able to get the top-level spells (as you have your Int and Cha scores to increase as well), but most utilitary spells are at level 5 or below anyway.

With AD for Travel, and spending one of your extra evocation spells on Contingency, you can make a contingent teleport or planeshift -- which is always great when you're bothered about survivability.

 

[Bront]

Yep, the spell designers at WoTC are breaking their own "rules" for spells.

First, instantaneous spells causing energy damage are evocation. Only spells which cause energy damage over time should be conjuration.

Second, spell resistance should apply to targeted conjuration spells which cause energy damage.

Read Acid Orb. Core 0 level spell. Works the same way.

Now, as far as the warmage, you loose a lot of power by having only combat spells. Yes, you can kill things quickly, but the Warmage doesn't even buff himself very well (IIRC), let alone provide any utility in non-combat situations.